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Jun 29, 2000, 10:49am

I just read this and laughed...

Ok.. so the "customer" base *has* risen since they started charging. Well
DUH... when everyone goes from not having to pay to being told "to keep all
this great stuff you need to start paying us for it", it's obvious.

Secondly... 400 users? That is a far cry from citizens in there, as we all
know that number you gave us was simply a number comprised of both citizens
AND tourists.

Both sides of the story here are a bit jaded...

AW just doesn't have much of a clue anymore. They said themselves that
e-commerce wasn't pofitable (this is referring to a part of their customer
base), because they didn't have enough interest (in the form of regular
users) to show statistics that would interest companies.

So, what does AW do? They charge money for the service of AW, which lowers
the potential people in AW. Active Worlds neither promotes their service or
has made a valid attempt to put ecommerce in their environment.

Throwing up a mall and saying "tada!... now leave one world to go to another
world just to shop :)"

That is the most idiotic idea I have heard lately... you couldn't get the
people who hang out in the AW world to leave there even with a stick of
dynamite.rwx!

well... maybe a powderkeg.cob.... :)

In any event, I totally agree that AW has managed to kick themselves in the
nuts (there is a first time for everything...) when they started charging
for AW citizenships. By starting this practice, they pretty much ensured
that they would NEVER be able to get enough people into AW to show companies
that AW can be used for ecommerce.

Personally, I think AW should just make it free for everyone (stop charging
for cits), thus converting the ENTIRE user base into cits as well as opening
the flood gates for new people to just walk into the place and stay for
free, THEN go to the companies and say "See, we have huge horde of people
using the service on a regular basis..." thus allowing AW to make alot more
money from the business aspect.

It's called advertising supported business model. Companies can afford to
pay AW alot more than the entire citizen base can together.

This is just an idea... but I tend to agree that AW has made a big mistake
by charging for cits. Although there is alot more wrong with the way they
have modeled their business model, I won't go into here... it would just
take too much space.

TTFN :)

MPL Knight

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Sep 8, 2005, 9:53am

I am very impressed with the modifications that have been made... though i
fail to understand how they were made...

maybe we could have a chat?

wburns at vr5-online.com

William Burns
CTO
VR5-Online.com

[View Quote]

Feb 21, 2006, 5:38am

Wait... nevermind. I'm a bit slow on these things. Enable local path...
mirror directory... put in high res stuff... override original things.

Ok.. sounds fair. Have a better use for it though. Well... better is an
opinion here.. but ... well...

Rephrased... this sparked a couple of interesting uses other than what AWE
is doing.

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Feb 25, 2006, 11:15pm

What I had in documentation was the method to use AW as a standalone from CD
without connecting online... either or...

Cool that AWE is doing the replacement thing for high res, though 9Mb is a
little high for me (dialup).

Oct 26, 2005, 4:37pm

Oo
Oh... dear....god.....

Where can i order some of that?

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Oct 26, 2005, 4:26pm

Ha! Next you'll tell me the easter beagle doesn't really exist :P

How about AW just get it over with and post the following sign:

Attention all users! We just wanted to inform you that the internet is a
scary place - and to help alleviate this problem, we have done a little
research into this "internet" thing and found that all other programs that
are not sanctioned by AW contain trojans, viruses, logic bombs, black
plague, snowcrash, and in some extreme cases have reformatted your hard
drive and installed O/S 2 Warp. Please be sensible and try to avoid this
whole "Internet" thing at all costs, as the Active Worlds universe should be
all you need.

- this would be the ultimate sign at AWGate

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Jan 23, 2006, 9:58am

Ahem...

From what I know about the creation of AW Help files, the pictures weren't
always updated version to version.

That snapshot of the worlds list is probably from 3.2 or earlier ... I also
attribute a couple of factors to that gihugic user count:

1. Influx of Users from JunoDome
2. AW Cit price was about $20 a year :)

So.. what we have here is general economics. When AW charged users $20 a
year to be a citizen, many thousands populated the universe, across many
worlds, thus attracting large contracts like Juno Internet to make up the
cost difference as a corporate contract.

Something apparently went horribly wrong with the Juno contract (a falling
out) and the result was a rediculous loss of money for AW. To make up for
the crippling mistake, and recoup costs, AW raises cit prices to $70.00 per
year with a letter to their users saying something like "we're sorry, but if
we don't increase the price there will not be any other versions of AW"

Problem is... when prices were raised to recoup the costs, user counts
dropped dramatically... anyone out there who contests this look at the
difference between over 3,000 active cits and currently about 1,000 today
(tops). AW is generally making the same amount of money from their users as
they did when it was $20 a year.

And so... lesson of economics kicks in again for AW - who is doing Stage
Coach Island for Wells Fargo using 4.1 of their software. Users = Corporate
Participation = Money

Going on the current Users = Money part is a waste of time and effort.

There are better ways to recoup costs and pay bills from users other than
outright charging them.

If AW wants to prove that their software is top of the line - make it free
to the public and put the costs on corporate inclusion. Hence we will again
see numbers like those in previous years, or probably a hell of alot higher,
and more things to see and do in here (companies).

Of course... I cannot even fathom how AW managed to sell the idea of a game
oriented virtual environment to a company like Wells Fargo (a bank)... must
hae been some amazing sales pitches going on... (AW: "Of course, the use of
our software not only whitens your teeth but makes you breakfast in the
morning while printing fresh $100 Bills ...")

I dunno...

MPL Knight


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Jan 30, 2006, 5:30am

I'm gonna go with Syntax on this so I will admit the following:

1. I am delusional as well
2. I remember a time when there were thousands of people in AW
3. Ignorance is bliss :)

So while somebody here may very well find out for sure that there never was
3000+ people in here at any given time, I will sit here contently and be
ignorant and delusional :)

Oh yeah... by the way: I'm an orange, too :)

lol

Jan 23, 2006, 8:24am

The reason nobody has downloaded it, probably, is because it's in EXE
format - and we all know how paranoid people are about EXEs from random
locations.

Just to prove that no harm no foul involved, I downloaded this file and am
taking a look. :)

MPL Knight


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Jan 29, 2006, 4:57am

TO ANDRAS:
Freedom of speech is a glorious thing. Below you will find my public
rebuttle to your friend Strike Rapier. What you will not find, is the
swearing and threats unless directly quored from Strike.
---------------

LOL

Well, Strike - you have a point. Because I apparently do not have an
extensive background in sociology, internet design and architecture or over
ten years experience in the field doing work for major companies.

Oh wait.. I do. What was your dayjob again?

My boss, is a former AT&T employee who worked in the development and
research of Internet2 Darkfiber with a bandwidth you could only dream of. He
left AT&T research to join me to help create a media that would be useful on
I2.

Knowing the future of the Internet *IS* my business. I have seen it, not as
a vison, but as a darkfiber pipe with a terrabyte ping accessible from the
household. I work with companies who are developing 98MB per sec modems (for
consumer use). It isn't webpages, and it isn't a massive multiuser game. I
know what the AW browser was designed to do, originally, as do most of the
users of the newgroups. It is a highly underutilized Metaverse, so I have
the ability to take off the rose tinted glasses and see it for what it is.

I'm sorry if I somehow steal your "thunder" by taking the spotlight off of
your personal "Strike Rapier" showcase. I don't really care if you know some
(or all) of the AW staff personally and meet them for company picnics.

The fact that all you manage to do is tell people how wrong they are if they
do not agree with you (or because you are somehow special) does nothing to
promote your ability to be taken seriously.

So, if you would like to take this time to bash me, or what I am trying to
accomplish - I will gladly give you a soapbox and a megaphone (because I
would like your message to reach those in the cheap seats in the back).

I will gladly give you any means by which you will make a fool of yourself
consistently in public. I'm pretty easygoing and I enjoy free entertainment
with my coffee :)

As for the posts about the soundpack... ummm.. well I simply made a mention
that I downloaded it (and nothing went wrong) hopefully spurring others into
downloading it as well.

Are you telling the forum and myself that posting replies to posts in here
is suddenly "obnoxious" as would be participation?

>MPL, has anyone ever told you that you should STFU and stop trying to >make
>every thread about you and what you will do?

Correction, oh mighty wizard... I make posts about what I *am* doing,
whereas you make vague posts about what you did where nobody can verify.
Case in point:

>Andras stated that too in email before I even posted...

Apparently Andras approves of your "rant" and swearing also? I bet he sent
his approval in email, right?

I also get a kick out of your tag at the end of your posts...

"Those people that think they know everything are a great annoyance to those
of us who do"

So tell us, Strike, while you have the megaphone and the stage - what do you
have to back your mouth and ego? I've posted half of mine and my company's
credentials, how bout you?

Step up, little man.


[View Quote]

Jan 30, 2006, 5:00am

For Andras:
No, Andras, you do not need to explain anything to me. Freedom of speech was
a comment concerning how some people manage to twist the words of others for
their own benefit.

For Mr Randall:

My experience far surpasses you in many areas. For one, I can hold down a
career running a corporation - whereas by your own admission on your own
website you can barely stay in a single job for more than a year. Saying
that you are a student is no excuse either - I know alot of college students
with full time jobs.

Your greatest achievement listed on your site in terms of prior work even
has the words SHORT TERM attached to it. I concede that you are more
knowledgable about programming languages to many accounts... What I *will*
do in order to dispel whatever issues you may have about my experience is
thus: I will simply post the link to my company staff page.

http://www.vr5online.com/beta/staff.htm

Wherein you will find my name posted with a short biography and what I do in
this corporation. Now, had I been preaching my company nonstop as you would
make it out to be, you and others reading this newsgroup would have already
known of this page (because of all of the advertising I'm doing here?) and
that topic would have been mute.

You are looking for the following name: William Burns, CTO

Notice also that I seem to get along with my staff, something that seems to
elude your grasp when it comes to working or dealing with others. You *did*
cite "growing bad feelings from other workers" as a reason why you
"voluntarily" left from one company, did you not?

While I applaude your efforts in mathematics and programming, the point here
is that it is statistically impossible for you to know everything. And with
your background in mathematics, you know this.

Part of successfully doing business and generally dealing with other people
has mostly to do with diplomacy on your part. Unfortunately, since you are a
19 year old wiz kid, you will consistantly fail to see this point.

When I first started using Active Worlds, October 1997, I began a design
effort to create a realistic 3D Internet. Many years, and a registered
corporation later, I am just beginning to bring this full circle by owning
my own world, negotiating with other companies, and stockpiling the staff
and media needed to fully bring such an idea into fruition.

Since indeed it is a new world, as you have said very boldy, one would not
expect it to meet professional design criteria straight from the starting
gate. That is the beauty of this environment, it is not a predesigned
project - but rather an ever evolving media space. Thus it is fully within
reason to expect a company who is attempting something completely new to use
this manner to continuously make this better and take the proper time to
perfect things.

Proper timing is everything, Mr Randall.

I will not proclaim that I either know everything about this or more than
yourself. Indeed, you are very knowledgable with this browser. What I will
say is that in matters of business and internet design I do happen to have
half of your lifetime as a head start.

I do not expect you to understand a single word of what I am saying without
having a "meltdown" and going on the defensive. You seem to do that very
well. This is also expected from a 19 year old. What you lack is not book
smarts, Mark, but instead maturity - and this is not something you will gain
from any book or course, but instead time itself will lead you to a better
understanding.

Rant and rave all you want in these newsgroups. Flame all those in here who
contest your brilliance. Do all in your power to shut down and "PWND" people
here.

When a conversation this large surrounds a post such as "I have downloaded
your soundpack and am using to show no harm, no foul" - and it turns into an
entire thread surrounding your smug attitude and some random attacks on a
person's character or abilities... there seems to be a problem.

From what I am reading from the great number of people that you claim to
speak for, you are more like the obnoxious guy who sticks his nose into
everyone's business and conversation for the sole purpose of showing them
up.

The idea that I am compelled to reply to you only reminds me that you are
simply wasting mine and everyone else's time with this childish behavior.
Very well may be that you indeed know everything... but only because being
around you lowers our IQ in the process.

Good day, Mr Randall, and good luck with your continued academic studies.

Jan 30, 2006, 5:05am

Before I was yanked into the back alley by Strike there was an original
posting here.. ummmm... oh yeah!

Syntax - I downloaded the pack but it seems to be more than just building
sounds? Not entirely sure at the moment, but as a general sound pack it's ok
:)

My apologies ahead of time if this thread is getting out of control. This
stuff apparently happens whenever Strike goes on his warpath... wish he
could just leave well enough alone.

Jan 30, 2006, 11:20am

Meanwhile...
Back at the ranch :)

Jan 30, 2006, 11:36am

oh yeah... now I remember why I was so confused when Strike said that I only
posted the credentials of my boss...

I looked back and reread... guess what I found?

>Well, Strike - you have a point. Because I apparently do not have an
>extensive background in sociology, internet design and architecture or over
>ten years experience in the field doing work for major companies.

This is called sarcasm... But I actually *did* give a little about my own
credentials. Selective hearing seems to be rampant for strike as well as
arrogance.

It's a shame - all that talent and no people skills.

Jan 31, 2006, 1:48am

Ok then...

party at my place :)

Feb 21, 2006, 5:45am

*sighs*

what a shame.

[View Quote]

Jan 23, 2006, 8:29am

Aiken has been around for awhile... I know this isn't much, but I'm at least
giving him a tombstone in my graveyard next to Daphne's.

I'll put in some flowers and stuff... least I could do.

If anyone wants to suggest anything to put on the tombstone (or maybe
whatever is on his RL tomb) please fire off an email to me -
DarianKnight at gmail.com

My condolences... May Aiken rest in peace.

MPL Knight


[View Quote]

Jan 29, 2006, 5:07am

Ok :)

No point in making multiple places. I have my own memorial for Daphne, she
was a friend and mentor to me before she passed. Also placed a virtual
headstone for my own grandmother who passed this summer.


[View Quote]

Jan 20, 2006, 5:17am

I totally agree :)

Going from $20 per year to $70 was indeed too high of a hike. Aside from
that train of thought - I do recall back in the day Enzo saying something to
effect that AW will always be free...

I understand there are bills to pay and running this stuff is expensive. But
there is a much better way to offset the costs of this system than expecting
the majority of the costs to be paid by citizens.

There is a wonderful opportunity in AW to implement it as a 3D Internet
system, if only AWI and other like minded companies would stop classifying
it as a "game" or "3d chat"

What we are looking at here, whether you want to admit it or not, is the
very thing that AW set out to accomplish in the very beginning: A 3D
Internet System that mimics the abilities and properties of a real Metaverse
as set forth by Neil Steveson in Snow Crash. Hence we have a world called
COFMeta.

Problem is, AWI forgot the magic rule with a Metaverse: Business will gladly
pay to be massively exposed to users for continuous periods of time.

IE: Citizenships are free, will flood the system. The Flood of people will
attract business owners and corporations who are greedy to get their
services and products in front of this massive multiuser realtime audience.

With a slight bit of marketing and proper business organization, everyone
gets everything they want from the deal. AW gets rediculously wealthy, users
don't pay to use a system, business and corporations gain meaningful access
to all of us via services and advertising.

Not that hard of a proposition. But, as long as AWI decides to call this
environment a "game" or "3d Chat", we'll never see this to it's fullest
potential.

This is a Metaverse, crying out for content and services. There are
thousands of us in AW all crying that AWI isn't listening to us - but I bet
even money that if half od us got together and built a world, utilizing all
of our resources and working together, and built it into a massive Metaverse
type world - AWI would suddenly take notice. Because it would generate a ton
of revenue.

Money talks.

And if I am the last person in AW, I'm lighting a torch and pitching a tent.

MPL Knight
http://www.vr5online.com



[View Quote]

Jan 20, 2006, 6:38pm

There are better ways to advertise in AW than stupid billboards.

Objects are banner ads too, ya know? Take for instance a simple vending
machine. You could have CocaCola vending machines all over a world in use
and clickable. Or maybe snack machines that actually let you order snacks to
be delivered. Just the *logo* on the machine is worthwhile regardless of if
people click the machine - which is why companies go to great extremes to
design flashy logos for vending machines - because the logos are the same as
billboards. Anyone who has played the Sims: Bustin Out knows there are
placement for Honda Element and Redbull machines.

How about actually putting stores around GZ? Instead of having craptastical
billboard ads you need to click, why not actually put the store there? The
building is a giant interactive billboard you can shop in for real. Not in
another friggin world like at Mart! - but integrated into a single world like
AWGate, so the people who do not leave gates will be enticed to explore when
they see the buildings and services.

For crying out loud! This is friggin VR Internet we're talking about here,
and the best we can muster is a billboard ad? We should have had The
Metropolitan Museum of friggin Art by now, people! Not like it can't be done
now by the community anyway? All the artwork is online via their website
anyway, and I'm sure a layout of the building is availible online... so what
stops us from making this place better?

*sighs*

What we suffer from is a definite collective enoui.

MPL Knight






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Jan 20, 2006, 6:54pm

Nooooo.. we mean Jacob AND Chris

Alot of these 4.1 Features are ripped directly from Plastic Planet. Others
are true innovations (prolly a combination of jacob and chris) while some
things I have never seen in PP3D so I would go with the theory that Jacob
had a hand in it.

But there are prolly other programmers in AWI who worked hard on this as
well.

Where the heck are my friggin Mirrors! Ok.. thats my only real rant.

MPL Knight
http://www.vr5online.com


[View Quote]

Jan 29, 2006, 5:05am

ok.. so it's an "in group" joke.

Of course, when I mention what I'm saying is a "theory" it usually is just
that - a guess.


[View Quote]

Feb 6, 2006, 1:05am

I would like to submit the proposal for a name for such a group:

Community

Feb 21, 2006, 5:51am

Was that a book with the diskette in it? I used to have a couple of older
diskettes with vr stuff on it and a few cd's with company programs... amazed
at how far the genre has come since then.

I think one of the programs I used to use was Veritas... or something like
that. It was on Mac back then...

Oh well. Glad you found that diskette... now it's just a matter of finding a
5 1/4" floppy drive to read it... maybe in an antique store? lol
[View Quote]

Feb 25, 2006, 11:11pm

It's possible. No screenshot of the book itself so i can't say for sure.

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