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Corection: E N Z O and JP own AW now!

Jul 14, 2002, 11:02pm
I use Netscape Messenger.

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Corection: E N Z O and JP own AW now!

Jul 17, 2002, 3:22am
But it DOESN'T "work just fine". With automatically removing "Re:", the 132-character/line limit (by contrast, Netscape Messenger can go up to 99,999 characters), and the constant updating required to thwart the multitudes of backdoors, bugs, and other Microsloppy programming inadequacies, Outlook and OE just aren't even worth using for email. I only use OE for some heavy-volume binary newsgroups (not yEnc-encoded ones, however) because it doesn't lock up (as much) when downloading tens of thousands of headers like Netscape Messenger does, which hangs every 700 headers as it tries to stupidly update the list).

[View Quote] > Agreed, why use another newsreader when outlook works just fine, plus it
> gets e-mail.
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Corection: E N Z O and JP own AW now!

Jul 18, 2002, 4:48pm
[View Quote] > And I suppose that Netscape, which has TWO working final versions (one being
> 4.7x? and the other being 7.x?) is any better???

I prefer 4.7x, which is officially dead. Netscape's final version is only 6.x now (7.x is still in beta, last I checked).

> Hmm....Why do I smell AOL lover here??? At least *I* make no bones about
> the fact I'm on MSN....

I'm hardly an AOL lover; I've simply been using Netscape products LONG before AOL got their grubby little hands on them.

> P.S. YOU may wanna take a look at YOUR settings in NETSCRAPE because
> there's only ONE > below that I can see (and no...I didn't doctor your post
> either).

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Jul 15, 2002, 2:14pm
Damn you, Goober, for screwing up the follow-up...

[View Quote] > Blah blah blah, community shummunity. I'm so sick of hearing about AW's pathetic "community". Hell, modifiable games have FAR more community than AW ever had--at last modders actually get together and create new game content (total conversions, levels, objects, skins, etc). All AWers do is piddly non-interactive, boring, rehashed worlds with nothing cool in them to even BEGIN to compete with 3D games.
> Why? Because AW lacks even the most basic of gaming (and decent environmental interaction) features like jumping, shooting/hitting, an inventory, etc. Even just jumping (assuming it was implemented decently enough, of course, and not half-assedly as most everything else is) would open up AW to a LOT more possibilities than what it has now. The only thing AW has going for it that every other game (except with the possible exception of Neverwinter Nights, but I still haven't tried it yet) is that it's basically a multi-user level editor--and a crappy one at that.
> But, see, no game developer/publisher has quite been able to make this realization which is why AW is BARELY hanging on (The Sims Online and Neverwinter Nights are edging in on AW's market share) and if Rick and JP expect AW to survive they MUST redirect AW's development towards gaming. Nothing else has worked so far--and nothing else will, except gaming. Note that this does NOT mean AW will ONLY be game-oriented but simply that it will be CAPABLE of being as such, so chatters can still just chat, and builders ("level editors") can just build ("level edit")--and, of course, people can just explore and do neither. ;) The point is: potenial. AW needs more marketability if it is to survive.
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Jul 15, 2002, 3:32pm
But AW needs to first GET gaming abilities before it can market them, community-based or otherwise. But "multi-user level editor" implies "community" anyway, but it's best to stay neutral and not lean towards extrovert OR introvert and just offer BOTH as possibilities without alienating either type of person. Level editing is traditionally a solitary experience so by labelling AW as a MULTI-USER level editor, that at least shows the capabilities of AW as developing into a community without forcing that community onto its users (most noticeably--and finally!--apparent in the new contact list privacy options, which still need work).

AWC/AWI has failed at marketing AW as a community based anything, gaming or otherwise because it lacks any real substance and use. Gaming features, at least, would give AW some much needed purpose and direction after its lifetime of floundering in the shallow end; it would finally be able to at least make an attempt to go into the deep end of the pool and swim with the big kids. Whether or not it could STAY swimming there is another issue, however. But if Rick and JP are serious about AW's development, they'll stop dorking around and get gaming programmers who know what they're doing.

AW will market itself once it gets competent enough, but that's been the problem all along: AW has NOT had the features and marketability to draw much attention or attain any real purpose. Gaming would at least finally GIVE it a purpose--something to stand up on and stand out in the saturated (as you claim) [gaming] market--which isn't saturated by multi-user level editors, by the way. AW still has a chance to get in on the action if Rick and JP finally wise up to the reality of AW's marketability situation and truly focus on something they obviously know and have little experience with: gaming.

[View Quote] > My point is that AW shouldn't be trying to compete with 3D Games, in
> fact, I highly doubt they even *could* compete with all the 3D games out
> there, even if they had all the spiffy gaming features you were looking
> for. The market is way too saturated as it is.
> While I agree that gaming features could greatly enhance the community
> aspect (they aren't mutually exclusive, y'know), I also think the
> community aspect of AW is just as marketable as gaming, if not more so.
> Sometimes, people just want a place to hang and flex their creative
> muscles, which is harder to do within the confines of a gaming-oriented
> environment. I think AWI would be able to draw in a *much* wider range
> of users if they billed AW as being a community-based software package
> that also has gaming abilities, rather than a gaming-based platform that
> you can also chat in. It's simply just a matter of emphasis.
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Jul 16, 2002, 9:57pm
OK, I've finally tried NWN and must say it's hardly any competition for AW. There's no 1st-person view, new objects can't be created and the modules are pretty standard in their design (can't change terrain height or anything). AW is still FAR more customizable in terms of modelling (but not scripting). At least NWN is another step towards multi-user level editing, but a quite small one at that, unfortunately. Next...

[View Quote] > Have you guys ckecked out NeverWinter Nights? Not only can you "play the
> game," you can competely rewrite the "official" scenario, and write your
> own scenario. IE, build your own 3D world, add your own characters,
> storyline, your own modeled items, avatars, just about *everything* you can
> do in AW, and a whole lot more, in a scripting API based on C. Windows and
> Linux servers are free for the download.
> *Children* are building worlds and running their own servers for the $69.00
> US cost of buying the game. And *thousands* are logging on....
> I'm not trying to "down" AW, but.... We need to get on the ball here. Eep
> is correct. Back in the mid-90s, 3d for its own sake was new and cool and
> worth participating in. Now, it's old hat and taken for granted, and if AW
> doesn't keep up with what's possible here in 2002, (*WHAT* 3D environment
> doesn't offer chat???) our investments in AW will all be shot to hell,
> because what's been "saved" by the owners is nothing but the old, go-nowhere
> scenario. In other words, I don't want to have to rename my world,
> "Crisis3D_cum_hep_me". Change my cit name to "IN-capacitated."
> What can we, as paying users, do to get the folks in charge to CATCH A
> CLUE??? There's so much better value out there and it's so frustrating
> because I want to take us all on *THAT* merry-go-round.... I just hate
> feeling like I've put a ton of effort into something that's inevitably going
> to be left in the dust... Aren't you all building worlds to have people
> visit your creation, to acknowledge that you've done an awesome job in
> giving them an experience that's special and meaningful and surprising that
> they can't get anywhere else??
> Or am I just crazy here???


Jul 17, 2002, 3:28am
Regardless, NWN won't catch on and will be lucky if it lasts as long as The Sims' popularity has thus far. Why? Because NWN is too confusing for the average person to bother with--plus it's heavily fantasy-oriented which limits the attractiveness to the general gaming public. AW is QUITE versatile in world theme because it's completely up to the world owner/builders to use whatever objects they want, unlike NWN's quite limited object set (if Bioware thinks they'll make money selling avatars and object sets, they're QUITE mistaken--hence why free server and citizenships won't last long why NWN will inevitably fail in the end if it continues at its current rate).

No, AW still has many more potentially marketable features NWN, VTMR, 10six, and every level editing program don't have: multi-user "level editing". If NWN had this, more theme varations (anything, really--not limited to any one theme), and the ability to create your own objects and import them, THEN it may be able to compete with AW's market. But as it currently is, it'll be lucky if it can survive, let alone compete. Of course, AW needs to implement more things if it is to compete (and survive) too...

[View Quote] > Well, yes and no. There's no 1st-person view, which is a shame. It's a 3/4
> down view, because it limits the amount of data which has to be sent from
> your computer (working as the server) to your online guests. It's sending a
> lot more than AW does, because your NWN world can include complex
> interactions between citizens and the background population.
> NWN supports plugging in additional objectsets (users have already
> contributed desert and arctic objectsets). One reason NWN can offer the
> universe server and citizenships for free is that they plan to design (and
> sell) a lot of new avatars and objectsets. Clothing is separable, and you
> can change clothes and armor online.
> You can't pull terrains to make heights and valleys, but there are objects
> for cliffs, ramps, waterfalls, and raised terraces. There are many
> variations that don't show when you just scan the list of objects: for
> example, if you put down a stream approaching a road that runs along the
> foot of a cliff, you can then pull the stream-end over the road and up the
> cliff, and toolset will make a bridge in the road for you, and a waterfall
> down the cliff. The lighting, both adjustable on the objects and in shadow
> and fog effects, is also more sophisticated than AW. Occasional rain,
> thunder, and lightning can be scheduled with a single checkmark; another
> checkmark, and you have a night/day routine.
> The scripting support is far more comprehensive than AW's SDK. And you don't
> have to be a programmer to create complex events, because there are
> scripting wizards, and plentiful example scripts to copy from. After you
> play the game in the box, you can see how every scene and every action was
> done, because all the scripts are there to read.
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Jul 19, 2002, 2:38am
Aren't grounded? Does NWN allow real-time multi-user building? Nope. I don't even think the DM mode allows it beyond a certain extent of adding NPCs/enemies and tweaking some basic parameters. The scripting may be better than AW's SDK, but it takes programming to really DO anything with it, which is something most gamers won't even bother with. No, NWN will have to be a LOT better before it can really compete with AW. Of course, AW needs to be better before it can really be marketable...

[View Quote] > Actually, other than the fact that there's no first-person view, your
> objections aren't grounded. New objects *can* be created with your favorite
> modeling program, and terrain height *can* be changed with just a mouse
> click in the Toolset. But foremost, in my view anyway, NWN gives you
> something to *do* inside all the stuff you can create. Granted, AW off the
> bat lets you build with a more "low-level" set of objects (walls rather than
> complete *buildings*), however, should you choose to model your own walls
> and build from that more fundamental level, you can certainly do so with
> NWN. But it's the scripting part that, frankly, blows me away. As far as
> I'm concerned, the scripting makes AW's SDK look paltry by comparison.
> And ultimately, when I look at what worlds are more often than not at the
> top of the AW list, I see Gor worlds; worlds where the cits are already
> heavily into roleplaying as it is. NWN is a natural for creating and more
> fully realizing that kind of thing.
> My point is, if AW gave us an easier way to create something to *do* in and
> with our worlds besides just sit there, host them, and stare at them, hoping
> somebody comes by, AW would be further along, and I think that's the
> direction the company needs to take. After all, AW *was* the ultimate
> "level_editor" back when it began because it uniquely offered the ability to
> build. But, at this point, it's turning into a little bit of a dinosaur
> (and the stock price is obviously reflecting that...).
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Jul 19, 2002, 5:50pm
[View Quote] > NWN already *is* competing with AW, though in a different way. Multi-user
> building is cool, but obviously not cool enough. Here's how it looks to me:
> NWN as it stands won't hold a candle to what's going to be possible six,
> seven years from now. AW, still trying to capitalize on the features that
> made it successful six, seven years *ago*, is, now, close to biting the
> dust.

Heh, in 6 or 7 years from now I'm sure AW (if it's still around, of course) will be MUCH different than it is now, just as AW is different than it was in 6 or 7 years ago. Take a trip to if you don't believe me.

> I'm not suggesting that NWN can or will take over what AW provides. (I
> doubt if BioWare is even remotely interested in doing that.) I'm just
> saying, "Hey, look at this 3D implementation here; it's drawing far more of
> a crowd and far more market share. Can we learn from what it has to offer
> so that we can make *our* 3D implementation more viable?" I think that we
> can. NWN is not the end-all, be-all of virtual environments. And you're
> right, most gamers won't want to deal with the programming, any more than
> most AW-ers want to deal with the SDK. But the point is, that wealth of
> programming opportunity is there for those folks who want to take advantage
> of it, and it provides far more possibility.

The key difference being that AW's SDK allows end-users (non-programmers) to use 3rd-party bots while NWN's scripting still requires programming.

> And (while I'm on it..) another thing I think we can learn from? I really
> like the way NWN's building blocks come in digestible sets--or the way
> clicking on an object attaches a ghost of the object's apprearance to your
> mouse when you're in the Toolset. This business of "object yards" is
> incredibly unwieldy and hard to work with--remembering cryptic object names
> and their appearances out of a collection of thousands just doesn't cut it,
> nor does having to visit the "object yard" every time I want to use
> something I've seen, but can't remember the name of.

Yup; I added an object preview mode to my AW improvements list ( ) years ago...

> In any event, these are just a few ideas which I believe would help bring AW
> back into the running. It costs a lot to have and host these worlds: we
> need to start getting our money's worth in relation to the other
> opportunities out there.

And what opportunities are those for AW? NWN (or any OTHER app/game) doesn't even offer the same things as AW so there ARE no opportunities out there at this time.

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Jul 20, 2002, 8:26pm
That's fine and all for pre-existing (pre-programmed) behavior, but if you expect to get any variety out of things you're going to have to learn the scripting/programming language and/or acquire more scripts from other people (i.e. Bioware, NWN's developers).

I was experimenting again with the NWN toolset to see about modifying the ground, and the problem with it is that each tileset has its own objects and tilesets aren't combined (allowing maximum object availability), so raising/lowering the terrain (which is misleading since there is no vertex manipulation like there is in AW) is impossible. The only "raising" and "lowering" is done by pre-existing ground objects (cliffs, etc) that are simply placed on top of the pre-existing flat ground.

NWN's modules are fairly bland and dull because of their cookie-cutter, LEGOlike modularity. I've never liked the idea of NWN OR Flatland's blocksets--they're just too restricting. And the lack of any real in-world (in-game, in-level) modelling doesn't help much either. Of course, AW also suffers from this inability.

[View Quote] > Online multiuser building should appear starting in late 2002 in MMORPG like
> The Sims Online, StarWars Galaxies, Horizon, and Atriarch. But to get it in
> NWN needs serious scripting.
> But--don't think that an exciting, realistic NWN world, complete with
> nonplayer characters and special effects, requires scripting.
> No. Every person, beast, building, or placeable item in the toolset comes
> with a default script: just by placing creatures or objects in your
> landscape, your world visitors get to see and hear all their default
> behaviors, with no scripting on your part at all.
> Open up the panel associated with any of the creatures that you placed in
> your world, check a few options, and your creature will roam about at
> random. Check a different panel option, put down a few invisible waypoints,
> and your creature will follow the path you indicated. Check another option,
> and the creatures will fight or greet others encountered along the path,
> returning to routine when the fight is over.
> A few days ago, to test this out, I put a sprinkling of characters from
> different factions onto the docks in the City Harbor, chose a few options,
> selected clothes and weapons for them, changed their abilities, their hair
> and skin colors, and gave them individual names. When I went to check them
> out in the game, there they were, strolling, pausing, yawning, walking up
> the ramps into the residential section, splashing through the shallow harbor
> canals, etc. One pair of them had already gotten into a fight. And when I
> spotted a Celestial Tiger near the Guard Barracks, he rushed over to deal me
> a humiliating lesson in swordsmanship.
> All that without any scripting whatsoever.
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What in the blue hell is this?

Jul 15, 2002, 10:01pm
Just FORCEFULLY (i.e. with offense) respond to each one so the idiots telegramming you hoepfully get a clue and don't do it again.

[View Quote] > Telegram from ALLOT of people:

> What the heck is this crap, and can we have someone consider shutting down
> whoever is sourcing this rumour

website, aw's problems...

Jul 26, 2002, 1:54am
Remember, AWI is no longer AWC, which AWLD belongs to. AWI is no longer a publically-traded company.

But I agree Rick and JP need to let us know what's going on. They desperately need to learn public relations...

[View Quote] > ok, well, after checking to see that flagg had that name change fee updated on the site (which by the way it wasn't) I noticed how they had the time to remove their ticker symbol and the corporation mark from the bottom of the page, changed to activeworlds inc...(obviously)..I also went to see that the board of directors page was changed to some executives page, only rick and jp are noted on it, though the nasdaq still has them listed...(are they ever going to be delisted?) changes changes changes, I think they need to inform us more of what is going on with the company...and what's in the future for it..ehh

website, aw's problems...

Jul 26, 2002, 6:01pm
The same people involved with AW are still there, most likely; just the independent directors are gone. Perhaps some people were let go but with Roland, Hamfon, and Crusty Lu leaving recently, it probably wasn't necessary. ;)

[View Quote] > so does AWC still manage Active Worlds? or have all the employees just been
> rehired by the new company?
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Jul 27, 2002, 7:52pm
Uh, AWI/AWC are NO Microsoft. Hell, they're barely even a company...

[View Quote] > lol this is so amusing does microsoft inform ppl of the inside of their
> companies LOL

[View Quote]

[Question] When was the last time....

Jul 27, 2002, 11:10am
I doubt little, if any. There are way too many empty categories and hardly any worldowners use it (or probably even understand it).

[View Quote] > We seemed to spend ages waiting for it, then once we had it we found the
> update speed was a whopping 3 days. Now a question... how many people
> actually use the Search tab?

Anyone want to try something?

Jul 28, 2002, 8:07pm
Works fine for me.

[View Quote] > I was looking around the web archive, tis truly amazing. Anyhows...
> Anyone wanna see if that still works?

Street Light Object

Aug 12, 2002, 11:53pm
Just In used to have his for free download but I don't know his site offhand.

[View Quote] > I remember seeing some street lights at either 3dcafe or objects d, but
> don't see them now:(
> I'm looking for those ones that are up high and come on auto when the sun
> goes down? (IRL that is)

Fwd: Security Update

Aug 14, 2002, 6:00am
Yea, really; no need to be all hush-hush anal about it considering it's a "forced" upgrade anyway. Sheesh, Analnas...

[View Quote] > ok lemme rephrase that.. WHAT was wrong?
[View Quote]

Fwd: Security Update

Aug 15, 2002, 12:22am shit, Sherlock; thanks for competely missing my point and mindlessly regurgitating what is already known. Lovely...

[View Quote] > Proberly another major hole in the software that needs filling with plaster,
> perhaps a world object password might be due again as quote;
> In order to protect your worlds, we will be making this a "forced upgrade""
> considering as you state its a forced upgrade and some worlds will disapear
> if they dont upgrade as they state;
> It will be necessary for you or your hosting service to make sure you have
> the most up to date version in order for your world to connect with the AW.
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Bug in World Server build 43

Aug 16, 2002, 1:10am
The limit used to be according to :

"full vertical: -327.67m to +327.67m (655.34m); current building depth/height (hopefully this will be increased in the future, considering you can move beyond these limits from -350m to +2000m)"

Don't know when it changed...

[View Quote] > Whoops wasn't reading that fully :) Actually wasn't the limit 350 in both
> directions? I'm not sure....
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Do you need Flash Text effects for your web site?

Aug 18, 2002, 12:03pm
Don't spam...

[View Quote] > To further add to the already free 3d lettering we off from our public
> object yard in Stingray World, We would like to offer to these that perhaps
> new to web page authoring the possibility to have a small Flash created
> textual effect free of charge.

Do you need Flash Text effects for your web site?

Aug 18, 2002, 7:37pm
Surely you can understand how this is spam for the simple fact that it has nothing to do with AW, for one; for two, it's in this newsgroup vs. general.discussion.

[View Quote] > Ok offer withdrawn, I'm against spamming and I am offended that a free offer
> with no connections is regarded as such.
[View Quote]

Do you need Flash Text effects for your web site?

Aug 18, 2002, 7:41pm
Um, how is Flash animations relevant to AW? Can AW use them? No. Hence, it's spam because it's not even AW-related. It should have been posted to general.discussion, if at all. Plus, ANY ad is unsolicited. Do YOU go looking for ads? I sure as hell don't. I see enough of them everywhere else in my existence so whenever I have a chance to bitch to the annoying advertisers/marketers/spammers, I do. I get at least 10 spam emails a day (mostly from Asian domains that fuck up my mail reader's character set, requiring me to reset it each time). I am violently opposed to spam in ANY form--I went QUITE easy on Wizard...<twitch>

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Do you need Flash Text effects for your web site?

Aug 19, 2002, 2:07am
[View Quote] [View Quote] Um, I never asked for Wizard to be banned.

> Seeing that several people actually requested that Myrddin's service not be
> withdrawn and that they do not regard his post as spam, my advice is to
> filter him if his posts offend or annoy you.

<shrug> I'd rather bitch about their off-topic nature and put pressure on spammers NOT to spam.

Do you need Flash Text effects for your web site?

Aug 19, 2002, 2:12am
[View Quote] >
> He DID however state this was in addition to the already free text they
> offer IN aw, the object, maybe you could use this for your AW website? Your
> world's website... For AW? ?? ...?

> posted to general.discussion, if at all.
> [see above]. It's for the COMMUNITY to know about ...

So you assume. However, it's not explicitly stated as such in the post.

> Nobody does, dumbass.

Fuck off, dipshit.

> Of course you do, it's a way for people to get the word out...not as though
> everyone will just stop advertising for you, everybody hates ads...wouldn't
> want to think to HIGHLY of yourself now would you...

<shrug> Just thinking about myself, not highly. Try thinking about YOU and everyone else inundated with constant advertising throughout their lives--it gets annoying, you know (or maybe you're just too young and immature to understand).

> advertisers/marketers/spammers, I do. I get at least 10 spam emails a day
> (mostly from Asian domains that fuck up my mail reader's >character set,
> requiring me to reset it each time).
> Why the hell would you get this anyway? surely you've signed up for
> something, or visited an *interesting* website...(asian domains?) you
> *could* try blocking or filtering the addesses, though.

Uh, I don't sign up for spam--PERIOD. I ALWAYS uncheck any "email me news, offers, etc" if I HAVE to sign up for something (web-based message boards--blech, website accounts: Gamasutra, etc). Why do you think I changed my newsgroup email to include "NOSPAM" in it about 6 months or so ago? Think about it, Maki.

> Maybe, but you've still started something completely un necessary, by simply
> saying "Don't Spam", idiot, don't waste time and bandwidth on this, as you
> can see, just about no one aggrees with you anyway, give it up, just ignore
> or filter the damn post ...after all these years...jeeze, maybe you should
> see a psychiatrist, or have yourself submitted to a mental institution.
> Someone really needs to put you in your place, jackass.

Fuck off, putz. Bring it on and you'll be put right back in your place. I have every right to bitch and moan about something if it affects me negatively--and spam sure as hell fits the bill. My response was COMPLETELY necessary in order to thwart future spam attempts. <shrug> Consider yourself filtered, moron.


Aug 23, 2002, 11:54am
Try the minus (-) key.

[View Quote] > if anyone knows how to set the terrain lower than GZ please let me know?

Survey about 3D Chats

Aug 25, 2002, 8:21pm
Tip: put the reply-to email as the correct email then.

[View Quote] > Please do not send replies to me, I am just the message delivery person. :)
[View Quote]

Survey about 3D Chats

Aug 26, 2002, 9:07am
Um, I think he means on a website...with forms and all that. Don't POST in HTML.

[View Quote] > Kah, here is the original email, which was sent to me in HTML format. : ) It is as follows:
[View Quote]

Shankahtus in Gor

Aug 28, 2002, 2:08pm
I've criticized his female avatars before for looking too "stocky" (wide shoulders, not very feminine, etc) and he didn't get mad at me or anything...

[View Quote] > Hi Folks, be very very careful when dealing with Shankahtus of Gor... he is
> VERY easily offended. I was going to purchase up to 200 dollars worth of his
> AVs... but I asked him if he could do something with the elbows of the male
> avs, as his av arms remind me an awful lot of Pop Eye's arms. He was
> offended, and told me he could if I paid him to... et al... there was more
> to it. So I left his world and he grammed me the following:
> ShanKahtus, sent Tue Aug 27, 2002 10:55 PM:
> I am an Artist and you have criticized my Art for the last time and I would
> not sell to you if you paid me double
> This fella already has a bad enough reputation. But he continues to want to
> make it worse for some odd reason. This person has LOST sales. He doesn't
> deserve your business either. Be very careful when dealing with this person.
> He really loves to throw the phrase "law suit" around as well. He swears if
> you take even a pinkie off his av;s and use them in another av, he will file
> a law suit against you for a ridiculous sum.

aw story

Aug 29, 2002, 7:15pm
Um, don't post this shit's bad enough we have to deal with all the gor freaks in AW--don't bring that shit to the newsgroups.

[View Quote] > ok .. so there are prolly a mazillion storys about aw out there floating
> around the net but i have started writting another one anyways.
> before you click the link and go start reading it and bcoming one of my
> devoted fans!! (HA .. not likely) read the disclaimer dealie below.
> disclaimer:
> this is a work of fiction and in no way is meant to offend or make anyone
> miserable or sad. its a story for goodness sake! and it has adult
> situations and sex and violence and weirdness and lots of madeup words. It
> is written in the aw style of switching from third person to first person.
> it is also written from the perspective of a fairy .. you know they little
> bittie winged creatures that are always so sweet and helpful :)
> its about half finished and i promise there is an ending, i can say this
> because i have finished the ending and am writting backward from the end to
> where the story currently is on my website .. that didn't sound very clear
> did it?
> recapping the disclaimer part:
> adult situations
> sex
> violence
> aw weirdness
> oh oh oh .. and it has its own chromeless javascript browser dealie .. when
> you click the link it opens a tiny popup which has the link to the story.
> and stop picking on shankahlus i don't go to the gors worlds but i have
> visited and i have seen his avatars and they seem ok to me .. sorta busty
> but ok :)

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