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edward sumerfield // User Search

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SDK Question...

Jan 12, 1999, 11:15pm
"from a preset directory on its server" would be the machine that the robot is
on but you didn't say where it is going to.

An avatar is someone's PC with the AW browser on it. If that is the case then
a program on that PC must have the file transfer capability. If you have an
FTP server then the robot could conceivably connect to it and send a file to
you.

Alternatively, if you have an FTP client, which is more likely, then you can
run it and connect to the robots machine which could be running an ftp server,
but with this setup the whole avatar authentication stuff is a waste of time.

Other than that I don't have any ideas. Sorry.

Oh, I hope you weren't insulted by my stupid question?

Edward Sumerfield.

[View Quote] > Lets say a person requests a file from the bot, the bot gets hte persons
> session number and ask for authorization to send the file and if the
> user accepts the bot will than send the file from a preset directory on
> it's server...
>
[View Quote]

SDK Question...

Jan 13, 1999, 2:26am
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Sorry bud, it is not bytes per second and since we are somewhat off topic this
will be my last word on the subject.

As per FALDOC at

http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=baud&action=Search

baud
<communications, unit> /bawd/ (plural "baud") The unit in which the information
carrying capacity or "signalling rate" of a communication channel is measured.
One baud is one symbol (state-transition or level-transition) per second. This
coincides with bits per second only for two-level modulation with no framing or
stop bits.

Edward "the bit twiddler" Sumerfield.

[View Quote] > well now I know ..... baud rate is not bits per second!!
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Sorry bud, it is not bytes per second and since we are somewhat off topic
this will be my last word on the subject.
<p>As per FALDOC at
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF="http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=baud&action=Search">http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=baud&amp;action=Search</A>
<p><b>baud</b>
<br>&lt;communications, unit> /bawd/ (plural "baud") The unit in which
the information carrying capacity or "signalling rate" of a communication
channel is measured. One baud is one symbol (state-transition or level-transition)
per second. This coincides with bits per second only for two-level modulation
with no framing or stop bits.
<p>Edward "the bit twiddler" Sumerfield.
[View Quote] --------------E4316C188534C7146B627971--

SDK Question...

Jan 13, 1999, 2:28am
Sorry I got involved. I don't know.

[View Quote] > Well 2.1 has file transfer
>
> and yes the server is the computer the bot is hosted on...
>
> What I was saying it will request your fielt rasnfer session # than get that
> number and send the file to you through aw...
>
[View Quote]

SDK Question...

Jan 13, 1999, 3:27am
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Assuming bps stands for bytes per second then I usually go with a factor of
10. 8 bits per bit then one stop bit and parity bit. Its not an accurate way
of calculating but it gives you a guesstimate.

So on my 28800 baud modem I see about a 3K bytes per second transfer rate when
downloading.

On a 2400 baud modem you will about 240 bytes per second being transferred.

A good network timing tool is ftp. Create a 1 megabyte file and ftp it to
another machine. FTP clients will tell you how long it takes. From there you
can work out your bytes per second. Of coarse netscape downloads give you this
info as well.

[View Quote] > OK how many bps is a 2400 baud modem?
>
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Assuming bps stands for bytes per second then I usually go with a factor
of 10. 8 bits per bit then one stop bit and parity bit. Its not an accurate
way of calculating but it gives you a guesstimate.
<p>So on my 28800 baud modem I see about a 3K bytes per second transfer
rate when downloading.
<p>On a 2400 baud modem you will about 240 bytes per second being transferred.
<p>A good network timing tool is ftp. Create a 1 megabyte file and ftp
it to another machine. FTP clients will tell you how long it takes. From
there you can work out your bytes per second. Of coarse netscape downloads
give you this info as well.
[View Quote] </body>
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SDK Question...

Jan 13, 1999, 4:33pm
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The only issue with the bot program being both the receiver and sending
of a file is that the line utilization from the bots computer will be high.
If you are on a 28kbps like me the bot would thrash the line a little.
<p>I believe the problem comes with knowing what is the "AW Client File
Transfer" protocol, interface?
[View Quote]

SDK Question...

Jan 13, 1999, 5:55pm
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<font face="Arial">It turned out that Mr. Baud-IfIDontUnderstandAQuestionIGetPersonal-Walker
is a very interesting fellow and the only problem was that I should have
been more precise in my terminology and called him Mr. SignallingRateHiker.</font>
[View Quote] </body>
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Re: Free Bots?

Jan 12, 1999, 10:47am
Yes. The concept is being used all over now. All Shareware software falls into
this category. Any eval download you get be it a 30 day eval or one that
doesn't expire. How many of you are running the endless eval copy of winzip.
Great product.
[View Quote] > Ed... you mentioned that 'try before you buy' thing.... Isn't that the idea
> that COF is using for ActiveWorlds?.... in other words... the tourists...
> I'd say it works very well...
>
[View Quote]

Re: Easy Make SDK

Jan 13, 1999, 12:02pm
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I'll make it ask the question and accept the input if you complete the
Volia! part.
[View Quote]

Constructing Bots

Jan 25, 1999, 3:31am
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Its hard to say without knowing what you want to achieve with you bot but I
can say a few things.

No there is no fancy switch statement. C only supports switch on integral
values.

Take a look at the function strstr() which searches one string for another one
so you might have

char message[256];
char *where_is;
strcpy(message, "Hello this is a message");
where_is = strstr("is", message);
if (where_is) {

printf("Found string '%s'.\n", where_is);
}

What do you want to do with you chat analyser?

[View Quote] > okay, okay.... now I have BC++ compiling properly you have to contend
> with a few questions about programming too!
>
> How would you recommend I construct the body of a chat-analysing piece of
> code?
>
> should I use something like strcmp( ) and a whole load of if loops to sort
> through the responses, or is there a version of switch( ) that will parse
> long chunks or characters?
>
> Again, apologies for my microscopic (but hopefully growning) understanding
> of C

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Its hard to say without knowing what you want to achieve with you bot but
I can say a few things.
<p>No there is no fancy switch statement. C only supports switch on integral
values.
<p>Take a look at the function strstr() which searches one string for another
one so you might have
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; char message[256];
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; char *where_is;
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; strcpy(message, "Hello this is a message");
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; where_is = strstr("is", message);
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if (where_is) {
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; printf("Found string '%s'.\n",
where_is);
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; }
<p>What do you want to do with you chat analyser?
[View Quote] </body>
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How can I create Object in my world?

Jan 25, 1999, 11:20am
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I can answer your second question. The first two arguments of aw_create
are the URL and port of the universe server but if you just pass NULL then
it will assume the AW universe server.
<p>So you will do
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; int instance;
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aw_create(0, 0, &amp;instance);
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aw_login();
<p>To do object creation that is all you will need. If you want an avatar
in the world then continue.
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aw_int_set(AW_AVATAR_X, 0);
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aw_int_set(AW_AVATAR_Y, 0);
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aw_int_set(AW_AVATAR_Z, 0);
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aw_state_change();
<p>Check out sample program 2 on the web site. It searches for and changes
a speaker object. See if that makes sense for you.
[View Quote]

How can I create Object in my world?

Jan 26, 1999, 2:23am
The prototype for aw_create is as follows.

int aw_create (const char* domain, int port, void** instance);

This is copied out of the aw.h header file from version 10 of the sdk.

When you say the first argument is a long, I will agree that it takes up four
bytes on the intel platform just like the char *.

If you want to access the AW universe and insist on specifying the arguments
then

void *instance;
aw_create("auth.activeworlds.com", 5670, &instance);

but

aw_create(0, 0, 0);

does the same thing and is adequate if you only want one bot in you program.

You can find this information out using the DOS/windows command netstat -an.
It will show the active connections on your machine. So run active worlds
browser and do a netstat and you will see it there.

May the create force be with you.

[View Quote] > Thanks.
> But, I don't know still first argument of aw_create().
> It's long value. But if I enter "my.activeworlds.com" with string,
> how can I convert with long value.
> And How can I know my port number that connect my universe server.
>
> I don't know...

How can I create Object in my world?

Jan 26, 1999, 7:42pm
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You mean that it will not work with any other universe other than the AW
universe which is already a 2.1 server.
[View Quote]

How can I create Object in my world?

Jan 27, 1999, 3:26pm
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Ahhh, the subtleties of deduction from a fine mind. My hat's off to you
Ima. I hadn't noticed that.
[View Quote]

AW_OBJECT_ADD with Owner other than Bot ID

Jan 29, 1999, 11:21am
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I don't know what ED privs are but you can log a bot in as someone else
if you have their priv password and create objects under their name that
way.
[View Quote]

AW System Architecture

Feb 5, 1999, 11:50am
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I took a high level crack at it on my page.
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/esumerfd/ActiveWorlds/Frames.htm">http://members.xoom.com/esumerfd/ActiveWorlds/Frames.htm</A>
<p>Its more of a network arch that a system arch.
<p>Edward Sumerfield
[View Quote]

AW System Architecture

Feb 6, 1999, 2:20pm
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I guess I don't understand what a "vanilla Kerberos" machine is. Kerberos
being a security protocol I am assuming that a machine of this sort would do
some login validation as the Universe server does but with the format of the
message looking distinctly AW proprietary I would think that it is a home
grown piece of code. It also supplies features like "get-name-using-citnum"
and "get-list-of-worlds" which are not standard security features.

As for the embedded IP and port, I agree to a point. All connections are made
outbound from the browser which are usually not restricted by firewalls. It is
inbound connections through firewalls that are a major no-no in the security
world. Though there are high security environments where even outbound
connections are disallowed and proxies are installed to allow secure data
passage in a controlled way for the more common interactions like web, ftp and
mail.

Suffice it to say, I work behind a firewall that allows outbound connections
and AW browser works fine.

I also use a program called ICQ that requires inbound connections and that is
unusable behind any firewall environment unless you get get permission to add
an inbound port override to the firewall just for that application. I have
worked in large corporations that are far too paranoid for a feature with no
cost benefit like chat.

Anyway, my point in bringing ICQ up was to mention that it implements the
SOCKS firewall protocol to get around this in some situations. I do not know
much about it except that it doesn't work were I am.

Edward Sumerfield, ICQ# 28021232

[View Quote] > This is a great compilation of information. One of thethings I plan to use
> the UNIR world for is as a 3D notebook(ala Ted Nelson XANADU) for helping to
> preserve thesystem architecture and essential knowledge for newpeople
> getting started in programming and world design. A quick scan of your web
> pages raised some morepoints... 1. Isn't the UniServer just a vanilla
> Kerberos machine ?
> 2. Embedding IP addresses into the protocol makes itvery difficult to
> interwork from behind firewalls. Are thereany plans to fix that ?....or
> should custom firewall codebe developed as a work-around ? Jim FlemingUNIR,
> COM and UNETY worlds in AW
>
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I guess I don't understand what a "vanilla Kerberos" machine is. Kerberos
being a security protocol I am assuming that a machine of this sort would
do some login validation as the Universe server does but with the format
of the message looking distinctly AW proprietary I would think that it
is a home grown piece of code. It also supplies features like "get-name-using-citnum"
and "get-list-of-worlds" which are not standard security features.
<p>As for the embedded IP and port, I agree to a point. All connections
are made outbound from the browser which are usually not restricted by
firewalls. It is inbound connections through firewalls that are a major
no-no in the security world. Though there are high security environments
where even outbound connections are disallowed and proxies are installed
to allow secure data passage in a controlled way for the more common interactions
like web, ftp and mail.
<p>Suffice it to say, I work behind a firewall that allows outbound connections
and AW browser works fine.
<p>I also use a program called ICQ that requires inbound connections and
that is unusable behind any firewall environment unless you get get permission
to add an inbound port override to the firewall just for that application.
I have worked in large corporations that are far too paranoid for a feature
with no cost benefit like chat.
<p>Anyway, my point in bringing ICQ up was to mention that it implements
the SOCKS firewall protocol to get around this in some situations. I do
not know much about it except that it doesn't work were I am.
<p>Edward Sumerfield, ICQ# 28021232
[View Quote] </body>
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SDK and JAVA

Feb 7, 1999, 9:29pm
Thierry has a page setup with download of version 0.3.

http://www.insead.fr/CALT/Encyclopedia/ComputerSciences/VR/Worlds/Alpha/AWSDKJava/

Edward Sumerfield.

[View Quote] > Hello
>
> Long time ago some was developping a translation of AW SDK for Java.
> I would like to know if he or she is still working on it.
> I could also give a hand :)
>
> jeanphi

SDK hanging?

Feb 14, 1999, 7:59pm
Any time. Glad to help.

[View Quote] > Sorry about all these posts. I left the program running while I was typing
> this, I go back down looking at it (ready to close it for doing nothing and
> it comes to life). Thanks anyway ;-)
> - Tom Neaves
>
[View Quote]

aw_wait and aw_state_change

Feb 14, 1999, 8:19pm
There is no recommendation to stay at 1000 ms. There are some reasons why you
might want to. For example, changes in your avatar are only propagated to other
browsers by the world server ever second, so it is not worth you making more
than one change to your avatar each second. Whether you implement this using
the aw_wait to time you or use an aw_wait of 10 ms and count up to 100 before
you make another change. It is up to you. Some environments use an aw_wait(0)
and then use other timers to drive when to call it.

You asked if aw_state_change would fail. No it will not but it will do you no
good because the browsers will not see any changes that it tells the world
server about.

You implied that you have an aw_wait for each instance of your bot. This is not
necessary. One program that has called aw_create multiple times to create
multiple instances of a bot only needs one aw_wait call. This one call will
wait for events for any instance. Once an event is generated you must use
aw_instance to find out which robot generated it.

However, this again is not the reason for your problem. Bots are moved by the
browser, not your robot program. All the program does is tell the world server
where the bot is supposed to be. The walking gesture that is applied to the bot
is applied by the browser. This realization results in you having next to no
control over how your robot is seen to move around the work in other peoples
browsers.

There are some rules that will help you generate the best effect.

1. The browser learns of changes in the bot once a second.
2. The browser implements a slow walk for moves that result in going slower
than 1 meter per second.
3. The browser implements a fast walk for moves that result in going faster
then 1 meters per second.

So the ideal logic results in a 1 second loop that keeps updating your robots
position at the speed that you want to go.

So lets say we want to move our bot from 0, 0 to 1000, 0. This is a 10 meter
movement, west. If we want the move to be walked then we must implement a
move_delta of 100, which is one meter, and make the state change every 1
second.

posx = 0;
move_delta = 100;
while (aw_wait(10000)) {

if (bot not at destination) {

posx += move_delta;
aw_int_set ...
aw_state_change ...
}
}

If we want the bot to run to that position then we must change our delta to 200
resulting in a 2 meters per second speed.

Hope this helps.

Edward Sumerfield.

[View Quote] > Hi,
>
> I've read that one shouldn't call 'aw_state_change' more often than 1000ms.
> ( for each instance )
>
> That gives me troubles then trying to have a bot move smoth and fast enuff
> :(
>
> Is the 1000ms interval a 'recommendation' or will something fail if I call
> 'aw_state_change' more often ?
>
> /Jan

aw_wait and aw_state_change

Feb 15, 1999, 1:14pm
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I believe I miss read aw_wait for aw_state_change. Doh. At least some of
my answer was still valid. It would be a shame to write so much and it
all turn out to be a waste of time.
[View Quote]

aw_wait and aw_state_change

Feb 15, 1999, 6:22pm
Walter, you are the best. Thank you.

[View Quote] > Well, i think your answers are never a waste of time. they read like
> very intersting lectures on something the reader just didn't think
> about in that detail. This is not ment as criticism.. I really think
> your answers stand out positively alot ! Walter aka Faber
>
> Edward Sumerfield schrieb in Nachricht
> <36C839D5.59763C81 at poboxes.com>...I believe I miss read
> aw_wait for aw_state_change. Doh. At least some of my answer
> was still valid. It would be a shame to write so much and it
> all turn out to be a waste of time.
>
[View Quote]

Bots vs 'usual' Avatars

Feb 15, 1999, 1:20pm
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The SDK does not support collision detection. We have discussed ways of
<br>implementing it ourselves but as there is no way of getting the constraints
<br>of each object from the sdk, you have to maintain your own list of
object
<br>sizes. I posted an array of all the sizes of objects in AW once. I
am not
<br>sure if anyone is using it.
<p>No gravity either. Must implement 10meters/sec/sec acceleration downwards
<br>yourself, but of coarse, must have collusion detection first or you
will
<br>just keep on falling.
[View Quote]

Bots vs 'usual' Avatars

Feb 15, 1999, 6:32pm
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Interesting. It was my understanding that it was the browser that made
the connection to the worlds object server so it is very easy to find its
address just by entering the netstat -an command at the appropriate time.
<p>AW Browser --- ( login ) ---------------------> Universe server
<br>AW Browser &lt;-- ( worlds list ) ----------------- Universe server
<br>AW Browser --- ( get world IP and port ) ----> Universe server
<br>AW Browser --- ( enter world ) --------------> World server
<br>AW Browser &lt;-- ( object information ) --------&nbsp; World server
<br>AW Browser --- ( connect to web server -----> Object server
<br>AW Browser &lt;-- ( GET object ) --------------- Object server
<br>AW Browser --- ( disconnect ) ----------------> Object server
<p>So, anyone, even object stealers, should have no problem in their theft,
even without the SDK. I didn't even realize this was a problem.
<p>In some worlds you can see the object server name in the Settings->World
mennu option.
<p>Collision detection is possible for the SDK but it will be some time
coming I think. Once this version is stable and released then I would be
interested in seeing the list of prioritized enhancements.
[View Quote]

Bots vs 'usual' Avatars

Feb 16, 1999, 1:53pm
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I believe the RenderWare graphics libraries are available on multiple platforms.
I thought this was a good reason why they were chosen by AW in the first
place.
<p>If the object file transfer is migrated into the world server you would
be adding a significant load onto it as opposed to distributing that load
onto each browser machine.
<p>Roland, the AW browser must already have the code to do the object downloading
and uncompressing in it. Is it not possible to include some of this in
the SDK. This would give you the advantage of maintaining the same cache
algorithms. There is just no rendering of the objects once you get them.
<p>I agree you would need the renderware dlls to use the sdk but I don't
think that is a big issue. You could pretentiously package the SDK into
two portions, the existing AWSDK.dll and then a AWCOLLISION.dll plus renderware
dlls. This would allow bots that do not require collision detection to
be shipped in a smaller package.
[View Quote] </body>
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Bots vs 'usual' Avatars

Feb 16, 1999, 5:15pm
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Why is a big deal to have to include the Renderware DLLs?
[View Quote] </body>
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Bots vs 'usual' Avatars

Feb 16, 1999, 6:36pm
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I am not entirely sure what you are questioning Eep&sup2;. Why should we
"prevent SDK programmers from getting them". All objects are freely available
from the object servers anyway.
<p>I have found no "encrypted" zips on the aw object server. I have found
files that are suffixed with .zip but are actually just .gz compressed
files. No encryption just compression in standard formats.
[View Quote]

Bots vs 'usual' Avatars

Feb 17, 1999, 11:25am
Point taken Roland. No Renderware dlls.

An extension to our thinking. Don't limit the design of collision detection to
avatars and objects. There are going to be many situations where an object
must collide with another object. For example, the ballbot would be really
cool if the ball could bounce of the wall.

[View Quote] > For the reasons that RJ stated, as well as many others. For one thing,
> RenderWare is not available under Unix, and a Unix port of SDK is currently
> very high up on the to-do list. Also, it would immensely bloat the SDK out
> from a single 80K DLL to hundreds of K with multiple DLLs making it that
> much more difficult for newbies to get a handle on things. To me, including
> RenderWare with the SDK in order to provide collision detection would be
> like including Windows98 with a PalmPilot just so you could use the
> "dingbats" font. Finally, and most seriously, there is a licensing problem.
> RenderWare is a licensed product. Our license does not give us the right to
> re-distribute it to developers for their own applications. If the SDK
> included RenderWare, no developer could legally release any program they
> wrote using the SDK. In short, I do think that collision detection in the
> SDK is something that can and should be done. It's just that using
> RenderWare isn't the right way to do it. A future solution where the world
> server (or perhaps another server accessible via the SDK) has far more
> intimate knowledge of object geometry is far more appealing. -Roland
>
[View Quote]

MFC and aw_wait()?

Feb 16, 1999, 1:42pm
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Why do you have to do that? A 10 second wait is a long time. All this call
does is wait for events from the world you are in. A call of 0 ms will
check for events once and then return. A call for 10 seconds will sit and
wait for events to arrive.
<p>There is almost no difference between calling aw_wait(0) every second
for 10 seconds or calling aw_wait(10000).
<p>Personally I use 1 second polls and make changes to avatars at that
interval to ensure that each change will get propagated to other browsers.
Of coarse I am not using MFC and have no other blocking calls in my program.
[View Quote]

MFC and aw_wait()?

Feb 16, 1999, 5:11pm
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<html>
Then use a 1 second wait and add a counter that counts to 10. When it reaches
10 change the object.
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; int count = 10;
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; while (aw_wait(1000)) {
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if (count == 0) {
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; change
object
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
count = 10;
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; }
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; count--;
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; }
<p>If that is too long then make it a 1 milli second wait and count to
10000.
[View Quote]

MFC and aw_wait()?

Feb 16, 1999, 5:59pm
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<html>
So, you can put your counter into the function that is called when the
timer pops. Make the timer pop every second, call aw_wait(0) every second
but only change your object, from that same function, when the counter
reaches zero.
<p>Well, as I am not an MFC guru I should leave this one to Walter, sorry
if I have wasted your time.
[View Quote]
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