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Feb 2, 2001, 7:52am

Can you put it online somewhere so I can see it myself? It's very possible
to show stuff with gaps to have no gaps by looking at it from the right
angle/distance. It is possible that aw3 is more precise of course. But just
rebuilding a wall/street says nothing. I often had walls that fitted
perfectly, but then there suddenly was a piece that had a gap (which was
smaller than even the smallest movement could fix).

By the way, *why* was it a bad example? Just because you couldn't reproduce
it?

Rolu

[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 11:00am

That big wall just happened to be there, and therefore I included it. You
completely seem to ignore what I built myself, which was built by hand, and
shows a clear gap.

If you build a wall without gaps, this only proves that you can build a wall
without gaps. This doesn't prove gaps don't exist.

If you build a wall with gaps, this proves that gaps exist. It doesn not
prove that you can't build a wall without gaps.

If you want to make a point, be ready to show some proof.

Rolu

[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 5:09pm

[View Quote] I've seen gaps for all the time I have built in AW, and know of several
other people who do. I've seen it happen on at least 5 different vid cards
now. Seems like enough "research" to me to be able to make a point out of
it.

> and don't make big points out of structures which "just happens to be
there".

My main point was the little wall I built myself over there.

Rolu

>
[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 7:17pm

Here you go. Attached screenshot shows a gap between two panels, built with
AW 3.1. Again, you have to look at it from real close to see. The objects
themselves can be seen at the same coords as my previous example.

I looked at my other example with this version of the browser, and there was
no gap anymore. Instead, the objects overlapped (as can be seen by comparing
their yellow bounding boxes). The different versions don't even seem to show
things at the same coords.

Rolu

[View Quote]
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end

Feb 2, 2001, 10:05pm

[View Quote] if you select the objects, do the sides of the bounding boxes match?

Also try moving objects around. Build a wall, clone it and rotate by 90
degrees, make a corner. Now clone the second wall, rotate it back and try to
match it up with the first one. For me this makes gaps quite often, even
though it shouldn't.

>
> I am not saying there's not a problem here. I'm just reporting how things
show up on my computer, then we can figure out WHAT the problem is. The
seams/gaps on the other videocards I've tried happened within objects too
though, does this happen on your system to?

Haven't seen gaps inside objects yet, haven't looked for them either. I'll
keep an eye open for it.

> Perhaps there are several different bugs interfering with each other:
seams within objects and placement of objects in worlds.

seems possible. Maybe even some patches "let's extend all objects by 1 cm so
they won't make gaps anymore".

rolu

>
[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 10:07pm

[View Quote] Prolly wouldn't be a problem, as there would be a conversion utility.

> IMO it's time to cut the fat and drop the behind-the-times users.
> 99.9% of computers for the past 2-3 years have shipped with 3d hardware.
> Those that haven't coughemachinescough were sold to impotent twits anyway.
> Rewrite the database and add T&L and such to 3.3/4.0. That makes SENSE.
The
> more window dressing is added, the uglier the ugly things become.
Eventually
> we'll have every 3d feature supported from old Voodoo cards to the NV20
> (nVidia's next generation chipset which I personally prefer calling
GeForce
> 3) but the bugs we bitch about now will be so obvious it hurts to look at.

Quite so.

rolu

>
> --
> Wing
> This little spot is dedicated to my girl, Jessie.
> WHAT TIME IS IT? GAME TIME!
> Ravens are goin Festivus Maximus on Purple Sunday
> AW Citizen 305004 "Wing"
> bathgate at prodigy.net
> eyemwing at teleport.com
> ICQ #101207433
[View Quote]

Feb 4, 2001, 12:36pm

[View Quote] happy99 did, iirc. Not sure though. You had to execute it yourself anyway.


Anyway, so called "virus warnings" asking you to spread the word about a
virus that has no known cure yet are just glorified chain letters. They
usually do more damage than the virus itself, if it already exists.

Rolu

> If you knew so much about viruses, you
> would know to email all the people you have emailed to lately and who are
on
> your address book, not to an AW-RELATED newsgroup. :)
>
> Nornny
>
[View Quote]

Feb 4, 2001, 12:40pm

I manually scan everything I download just to be sure. Never found anything
(but that doesn't mean I'll never find anything so I keep scanning). The
only virii I ever saw were those things mailed to me, like happy99 and
ILOVEYOU. But stuff like that is suspicious enough to be warned that
something is wrong the first time you see it.

rolu

[View Quote]

Feb 4, 2001, 2:32pm

[View Quote] Because it would take a huge amount of time and a good knowledge of
programming. Many people have neither.

> I would have started on such a venture several months ago, but alas, I
can't
> program yet. :)
>
> Everyone here knows enough about AW and its shortcomings that an AW 2.0
> could be created using all new code that would have everything AW didn't.
>
> Discussion?
>
> SW Chris
>
>

Feb 6, 2001, 8:59am

[View Quote] Quite so. It's like a pool of mud with some coins in it, there are some
useful things inside but you can't see them easily and it takes some effort
to get them out.

rolu

Feb 6, 2001, 9:06am

[View Quote] Something they certainly don't do is talk to the masses. This annoys quite
some people, they feel ignored etc, which in turn makes them mad. For
example, we have a wishlist newsgroup, but nobody from AWCI ever seems to
look in it. I think they should be more active in these newsgroups, and more
online in places like aw gz or awgate or something. Techtalk is a nice
exception, but it's way too busy to really talk and discuss. However, it
seems AWCI never gets here because they are affraid to defend their choices.
If they get in here they will surely get some flames. But that shouldn't
matter, there will also be positive things (and no buttkissing please). It's
all about interaction.

rolu

Feb 6, 2001, 2:21pm

[View Quote] That's exactly what I said.

> Because they won't listen, they
> make terrible decisions, and they won't even make any effort to explain
> what's going on.

That's about what I said too.

> Not to mention that the people in charge, Rick and JP (also
> known as The Worst Person Ever) are about as useful as a rotting elephant.
> It's almost too late for them to come out and say "oh, look, we're here to
> listen now."

Yup. Still, I think they should try. With the right attitude they could
still make it. However, I doubt they want to.

> Perhaps if they'd done that when they first showed up,
> everything wouldn't be in this mess now.

Feb 4, 2001, 2:32pm

Actually, I think object placement should become less accurate. At the
moment, the accuracy is larger than what you can correct using even the
smallest movements, so if an object ends up somewhere where it doesn't
completely touch another object, you can't fix it. On the other hand, if the
objects would snap to a grid with an interval equal to the smallest movement
possible, they would always fit (as long as you build straight). To be able
to position rotated objects where you want, there should be an even finer
control as there is now. Moving normal does 1/10th of a cell length iirc,
shift-move does 1/100th, and there should be something like
ctrl-(shift-)move to move things 1/1000th of a cell length, and every object
you build should be positioned at a whole amount of 1/1000th of a cell
length. This would be very easy to do, when you move something just perform
the regular calculations and then round it's new coord to 1/1000th of a cell
length.

Rolu

[View Quote]

Feb 4, 2001, 4:01pm

[View Quote] maybe I should add that avatar position and the positioning of the points
inside the objects and stuff like that should have the highest precision
available. An object itself, however, should snap to the grid. Since you
can't place objects any finer than the width of the grid anyway, since the
smallest move is as large as the grid spacing itself, this should make no
difference in building. However, it will be impossible for the floating
point errors to move an object with an amount that is smaller than what you
can correct manually if you round the place of the object itself to the
nearest grid point. This is what in my opinion is causing the gaps.

An example: you have a wall which is exactly 300cm wide. You place one,
clone it and move it around. When you put it next to your first wall, it's
origin is not 300cm away from the origin of the first wall, but 300.01cm due
to floating point errors. This causes a 0.01cm gap, and since you can only
move objects 1cm at a time (iirc) you can't correct it. Now, if the object
placing code would have rounded the wall's new place to the nearest cm, the
object would have been put at exactly 300cm, with no gap, and everything
would have been fine. This actually is the right method, it's not inexact
despite the rounding. You'll always have errors, no matter how much bytes
you use for the numbers. You can, however, anihilate those errors by
rounding them out. Leaving them in is the inexact way.

rolu

>
> The more people who notice these things, the more they'll likely mention
them to Roland, which hopefully means he'll actually fix it.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 5, 2001, 11:45am

Been there, done that.

rolu

[View Quote]

Feb 10, 2001, 7:46pm

Please do not post in HTML, and snip a bit. Your post was 19kb in size, with
less than half a kilobyte coming from you.

But you are right about that - most IRC programs can do a lot more. AW is
quite basic on that part.

rolu

[View Quote]

Feb 6, 2001, 8:51pm

Spoken very well. Let's hope things can improve.

rolu

[View Quote]

Feb 7, 2001, 10:10pm

[View Quote] Not going to do so. Filtering is lame. If you don't want a discussion, just
read and don't reply. There are always useful things around.

rolu

Feb 8, 2001, 4:25pm

Don't throw Eep out. It will do more harm than good.

rolu

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 6:09am

[View Quote] You do not *have* to be in here. But, please, think about that for a bit.
You are in here as Facter. But you are also in here as an AWCI employee. In
my opinion, it is a very bad thing that AWCI doesn't reserve time for people
to respond here. After all, this *is* one of the main communication channels
for AW. You come here to help, to be a link between AWCI and us. We all
appreciate that. But there is more. Having someone in here is not something
optionally for AWCI. It is *required*. Not having someone in here is one of
the main reasons things got out of hand this much. Rumours develop fast, and
spread fast. Not having someone in here is a big public relations mistake of
AWCI. You know it, and therefore stay here in your free time. But shouldn't
this actually happen in AWCI payed time? I think so. You get a lot of shit
over your head now - it's like a lightning conductor, hit by the lightning
strike coming from here, aiming for AWCI, caused by frustrations caused by
AWCI.

> and watch myself, and other people in this newsgroup be
> personally attacked

Something which is not good. Eep can be blamed for not being tactical, and
for being rude. I can agree to that.

> - As I have said, as long as he apologises to the group,

Considering his posting history, how much of a chance do you think there is
he will do this? I don't think he will.

> and refraims from being so derogatory in the future, then there is a
choice
> you can all make, and it can be very democratic.
>
> There are two different ways this can be done.
>
> He is to apologise -
>
> OR
>
>
> If he does not apologise, then the matter will be put to a vote of the
users
> of the newsgroups - in a very democratic way.

This is not democratic. Who deceides we should vote about who? A real
democratic system would be one where a set amount of people have to make a
petition to start a vote, after which this voting would take place. The
target of this voting could be anyone the petitioners have a problem with.
In this case, you did the petitioning part on your own, after you personally
got into trouble with Eep. Next time I get an argument with someone else
here, I can't say "and now we are going to vote to kick person xxx out
(unless he apologizes)". You can only do this because you are an AWCI
employee and have some power at the other end of the line. And therefore,
and I don't like to say it, this would be a case of abusing your power as an
AWCI employee, in particular to censor someone you have problems with. This
has happened before, AWCI has a reputation on censoring trouble makers. I
urge you, *please* *do* *not* make that same mistake.

> You guys can all take a vote,
> on whether he is to remain here, or not - if the vote says he is to stay,
> then I will no longer be posting to this newsgroup, and you guys get to
keep
> him - but, you will also lose any correspondance from me here,

Here again you use your power as an AWCI employee. What choice do we have?
This is not fair, not for Eep, not for you, and especially not for us,
newsgroup citizens.

> and this
> group will go back to the way they were before I started posting in here -
> apathetic and mainly used for everyone to have a good old bitch about the
> company I work for, when they have little or no facts on which to base
their
> bitching.

And that is a problem for AWCI. The people in these newsgroups have quite
some influence, many of them run important parts of the community. How much
good will it do for AWCI to have such a newsgroup? This could be one of the
best places for AWCI to inform people of things, and to have people respect
them as a good company.

> So, there are several outcomes here, and this is how it is going to be -
> democratic, wise

Sorry. I do not consider this to be democratic, nor wise. It all sounds too
impulsive.

> and I am telling you right now, I am being very nice in
> even giving these options, because the amount of people around here at the
> office, and also citizens who have just said "throw him out" has been
vast.

As a person, you have been very nice, and I respect you for that. But now
you take the wrong turn. You are forcing people to choose between you and
eep. Some people will have an easy time deceiding. But not me. And I'm sure
there are other people here who think like me. I don't think it's nice to
force me to make this choice.

> So it can be an apology and a respectful stance from Eep, or a vote. It
cant
> get any fairer than that.

Act like anyone else. Choose to mute, filter, don't listen. Plug your ears,
skip threads with Eep involved. Do anything everybody could do. But don't
use your AWCI employeeship power to settle personal things. Don't take my
choice away to speak with anyone here.

You *can* do this. AWCI is the company, and the newsgroups are theirs. There
is no law I am aware of that will prevent you from doing it. You can kick
him out right now, or make a big fuss first. But doing so would be wrong.
You would take Eep away, and his resources. Maybe scare some people here.
And you would damage AWCI's reputation even more, and your own with it.

> An apology would be the easiest, most rational course I would think,

Again, I think it's quite unlikely.

> but I want to be democratic about this also - I'm not going to decide this
issue
> for everyone, as Lara nicely pointed out.

You already did, more or less :-(

Please consider what I said here. For as far as I know you, I'm sure you act
out of your best knowledge and care. But even with the best intentions, one
can go wrong. And I'm afraid this is one of those cases.

rolu

Feb 9, 2001, 1:54pm

[View Quote] I didn't pay. Do you say I shouldn't express my opinion now?

rolu

Feb 7, 2001, 10:15pm

[View Quote] You might consider it a style of writing, like using smiley's all the time.
At least it's readable :-)

and yes, she's doing good so far :-)

rolu

Feb 8, 2001, 4:21pm

[View Quote] or happy in general

some people I know are like that. Nothing wrong with it, as long as they can
be serious when needed.

rolu

Feb 9, 2001, 6:28am

rolu - 288153 - stay

I hate this. But you leave me no other choice.

rolu

Feb 9, 2001, 7:22am

[View Quote] Cool. So we choose something else than you, so we failed to do it. The idea
behind it is nice, but you made some big mistakes (as pointed out in other
posts). This just seems to turn into yet another AWCI failure. Why do you
think we can't make a decision? Why should we make a decision? You alone
started this, and on very dubious grounds. This is *not* good.

rolu

Feb 9, 2001, 8:35pm

[View Quote] You're a bit late... we've already discussed it far and wide.

rolu

Feb 9, 2001, 7:43am

rolu - 288153 - stop the nonsense!

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 9:32am

[View Quote] You respect us - so you force us to make a choice which splits the
community, and force us into an insane position where everything will be our
mistake anyway. Very nice of you.

> Something had to be shown to Eep, so that he would realise the impact
that
> his insulting nature has had on this community - did you all want me to
> stand back and go "yes eep, no eep, three bags full eep" ? Looking at it
> now, just banning him would of been the best solution out of anything.

It would have been stupid too.

> But it seems that the hope, that we could place a simple decision in the
> hands of our users,

Read: But it seems that the hope, that we could get the users to deceide to
kick eep out,

This whole voting thing is fishy. Do you really think it would be a simple
decision with **OPEN** votes? YOU single handedly started the voting, and
then biassed us and abused your AWCI position to get us to kick eep out.
This whole thing is just a set up. Eep has been ranting away for years now,
yet now he hits you, you suddenly start a voting et all. This is PERSONAL,
facter. Apparently you are NOT able to distinguish between you as an AWCI
employee and you as yourself. You messed up. Big time. Everything got out of
control. And from now on, you will always be one of the bad guys -
unfortunately - and it will be very hard to get rid of that.

> has turned into something that I myself am disgusted in.

Largely your own mistake. As you have read, many people are disgusted of the
way this took place.

> You all see now, why AWCI has really had user votes - and why when things
> have been done, they are done in an administration manner - look at the
mess
> this whole situation has created

CLOSED VOTE. Good solution. Why an open vote in the first place?

> - and you guys out there, all wonder why
> the management at AWCI keeps a distance from these newsgroups.

Because they are unable to handle them? If you have a high position, you
will get a lot of attention. Some of that will be negative. You will need to
have a thick skin. You started right, but then weren't able to handle the
pressure. You should have just ignored Eep, and not threaten to kick him.

> Well, now you all know dont you ?
>
> Now perhaps you realise exactly how divided, how bickering and how very
> small our community really is.

It's a controversial issue. And you forced it into our faces. And you still
wonder why all this happened?

> Its up to you people to fix it.

You mess it up - now we have to fix it.

> I believed
> that by giving you guys something that you *Always* asked for - democratic
> processes, that this would help.

This was not democratic! It stinks!

> By being completely open about the matter,
> I allowed something totally different to be done - I approached the
> situation with honesty and with the genuine intent to try and help a
> situation which in my opinion was jsut going way too far.

And now it went even further. All your attempts to solve it only catalyzed
it.

> I gave my opinions, I tried to engage the community in a rational
decision.

But you stronlgy influenced it. In a way that can't be called democratic.

> I wished merely to assist you all, without being the brunt of abuse,
> derogatory remarks and slander from a certain individual.
>
> Please let me show you, first, before I go any further, the kind of person
> that some of you are defending so much.
>
> These are quoted insults he has used, mostly against me in the past day or
> two - "power hungry", "shoving it off to the community", "ties too hard",
> "power tripping", "low self esteem","You're such a fucking twit, "YOU,
idiot
> twitfuck moron pissant, have no grip on logic","Now evolve ","hypocrit,
> (spelling Eep, again),"pathetic","Sure, one word: bullshit. "fucking with
> the newsgroups","bullshit statements","bullshit artist","fucking
> clone.","Because you have no life?","...a trip to a shrink might help.",".
> Better lay off them drugs","superchamp wonder twinkie-zippy.
> ","Facter is weak since he can't handle the truth.","fucking full of
> yourself","Only after continually insulting him" (he admits to continually
> insulting people for his own pleasure),".

I'm in doubt... either you really started this with the best intents, or you
have made a set up to trap eep and kick him out intentionally. I prefer the
first view. However, I can fully imagine how someone could think about 3/4th
of the statements above about you.

> Some of you are DEFENDING this kind of person ?

Yes, we do. And you know why? Read the posts, it's all in there. You only
showed the bad side of eep. Some of us also see a good side. You showed a
very bad side of yourself.

> *shakes his head* - then
> this community, had already gone to hell in a handbasket well before I
> tried to help matters. How anyone can defend someone for that kind of
behaviour is
> beyond me. as an intelligent, caring and decent person I can find *no* way
> in myself to see how any could possibly defend such.
>
> Rick, JP and indeed the whole office is aware of this situation. Rick and
JP
> were spoken to before I even instigated the vote, or contemplated any
> "Bannings". It was a general agreement, to try and involve the community
in
> some decision making, and to try and instill some kind of trust in
allowing
> a democratic process to be allowed on matters of discipline in this
> newsgroup.

Democratic. Bah. You got into trouble with Eep, then tried to exercise your
powers by forcing us to kick him out.

> I had the full support of my superiors,

Sure, they would like to kick Eep out. I can understand that.

> and indeed thought that
> by trying to give the community something like this, a decision like this,
> that it may go some way towards helping the rift that seems to be between
> portions of the community and management.

Don't you see it?

> It was tried, and it the process has failed.

The process was flawed, and doomed to fail.

> From now, there will be no more technical support from myself in these
> newsgroups. All support will now be done via email and no correspondance
> between myself will be entered into in these newsgroups.

If that's how you think to "solve" this... fine... this is a sad day for AW.

> Eep is welcome to
> remain, but there will be moderation on posts if they are found to be of a
> derogatory, insulting or offensive nature.

"moderation". Yuk. So if I say I think AWCI stinks, my post will be deleted?
After all, this can be seen as insulting.

> If he _pushes_ the matter, and
> merely continues to heap into this group posts of an insulting nature to
> others including myself, then he will be banned, with no consultation or
> appeal entered into.

Take gun. Aim. Shoot in foot.

> On a personal note, I must say that my first foray into trying to help the
> AW community in my capacity as a employee of AWCI, it has left a very bad
> taste in my mouth. Instead of seeing potential, instead of seeing that I
> could indeed help, instead of being polite, and courteous and respectful
> towards me, Eep has attacked for no , insulted, provoked, defamed and made
> mockery in his words of my professional manner.

Eep does that to everyone he doesn't agree with. But you are the first one
to push it this far.

> On the matter of the newsgroup downtime, the downage was fully explained
> explained on the outset (I even posted about it on the network status
page,
> and they were down for four hours, and the only persont hat noticed was
you,
> Eep) - do NOT twist that into something it is not Eep - my explaination
was
> a fully good one, and merely lacked down to the bare level details such as

> "defraging harddrive, scandisk and a check of files - i mean, geez - "I
took
> down the server for maintenance" covers ALL of those things, which are
some
> of the things that were done on that morning.

Maintenance is quite vague. I can understand that people would want a more
specific explanation. Why not just tell that you defragged, ran scandisk and
checked all files?

> I will no longer be posting to these newsgroups. There will be no more
> "votes" in these newsgroups, and as I stated before, there will be
> moderation of offensive posts, and Eep will especially be looked at.

argh... not *again*. I'm glad someone else pointed out the other discussion
groups.

> Obviously, there is a large portion of people here who, for some reason,
> wish he remains (they may not even be a majority) but for whatever reason,
> he may do so - on conditions, and if those conditions are not met, thent
he
> matter will be dealt with in accordance to charter guidelines. All users
of
> this newsgroup, are to be aware of the charter, and Eep is not singled out
> here, these standards apply to all who we give the priviledge of using
these
> groups.
>
> But, myself, as AW Technical Support - have wiped my hands of this group,
> and will not be utilising them again for information or advice - support
may
> be found at support at activeworlds.com
>
> For those of you that know me, you know that what occured here occured in
> good faith, or good heart, and good intent. Unfortunatly, it has soured me
> of doing anything of this nature again - I have tried for years, since
> coming to AW in 1996, to try and help the community. I have been a GK, a
PK,
> an outspoken advocate against harsh tactics in many different forms. I
> continue to now be outspoken against harsh PK tactics, abuses of
individuals
> in the worlds (do you know how many people I help when they have been
> harrassed?) and doing all manner of things to assist this community - most
> of which is done in my *own* time, of my own violition, of my own *want*
to
> give back everything that I have got from this place. When I applied to
work
> here at AW, I am sure that one of the reasons I was chosen for the job was
> due to the fact that I *was* outspoken on these issues, and would help to
> bring some new ideas on how to relate tot he community. Having been a GK,
> and a PK, and not being able to help in the manner I really wanted, seeing
> the job was a godsend. In the year previously, I had logged into AW about
> ten times total - I kept coming back, instead of giving up on it - the job
> was a godsend and an opportunity to give back to the community.

You can be great, you can be fine, you can be helping everyone in the world,
but you still can fuck up. And you did on this case. I believe you when you
say you did this to help. But that doesn't clear you from the blame.

> I do not need to be judged, I do not need to be insulted, when I have
merely
> wished to help, assist and give new ideas and initiative to the community.

Don't we all? Most of us at least. I know it is hard when you go somewhere
to help, and people turn against you because of something you do. But don't
turn away in anger. See it as a sign that you were helping in a wrong way.
You only truly help people when they appreciate it.

> And especially, I do not need to be ground into the dirt by one individual
> who has a severe lack of social adequacy.

But should you punish the whole community for it? Please, no!

> I do not think that you need to wonder why now I have no wish to be a part
> of these groups.

See about 11 lines above.

> As stated - Eep is welcome to remain. Any derogatory posts from him or any
> others will be deleted, continuous insults and derogatory remarks from any
> user, including Eep, will result in the user's priviledges in these
> newsgroup being revoked.

You know what? I once was a happy AW user. Then came incidents like the
autoeject bot at AWgate. It opened up my eyes about AWCI. I deceided to stop
my cit ship and stay as a tourist, because I don't want to financially
support such a company. Then, on a bad day, these newsgroups became citizen
only. That day I deleted everything, because I was fed up with it. Over a
year later, my curiosity won, and I deceided to take a look. AW seemed to be
a nice place again, there was no more autoejecting at AWgate, and I ended up
in a christmas present contest in Storage. I won a cit ship there (thanks
Daphne), and went back to these ngs. Although I still dislike AWCI, their
bad influence seemed to be stopped, the ngs were a nice place again, and
everything seemed fine.

You just destroyed the last bit of faith I had in AWCI. These things look
really incompetent.

> Enjoy your newsgroups.

No, facter, the newsgroups are AW's. Take your responsibility. Make AWCI
care.

rolu

Feb 9, 2001, 11:37am

[View Quote] I've seen some posts of people who were tired and sick of this voting and
AWCI in general too.

> As again I will state, posting in here was something I wanted to do to
help
> out - it was not an order, nor was I told to do it. I did it because I
felt
> like it would help things - your attitude towards me, and what I tried to
do
> in here, only re-inforces the fact that one person can only try, and if
they
> are not appreciated for their efforts, then it is time to stop.
>
> Again, beyond this thread, I will not be posting in here any more -
perhaps
> someone else will step up to try another community effort in here, but for
> now, I am going to stay within my job criteria - and that does not include
> offering support in these newsgroups. My community efforts will go towards
> the new website, and helping out citizens in-world if needs be.

Too bad. You could have done great here. If only you had filtered Eep.

> And, I never said I was not assuming responsibility, to any of you - I am
> responsible for this, so therefore I am dealing with it. Do you think I am
> going to enjoy stopping posting ina newsgroup I have posted to for five
> years? since well before amny of you even joined AW. No, I am responsible,
> but the blame does not lay souly at my feet - Eep is jsut as much to blame
> for this whole mess as I am. If you were truely going to be fair about
this
> situation, you would all also acknowledge that.

Eep is to blame for being rude and offensive. But most of the last ~200
posts come from the actions you took, actions the community didn't agree
with. As a support guy, you surely must have met angry customers before, so
you should know how to deal with them. Sure, eep might have planted the
seeds for this mess - but you grew it, where you could have starved it.

rolu

Feb 9, 2001, 12:35pm

[View Quote] But why not just do support here too, and ignore anything non-related?
Afaik, you only seem to have a problem with Eep. So why not just filter him
out? Stay here, that would be great. Just clearly state whether you post as
Facter or as AWCI support guy. Make two different accounts, even, if you
need. The flames and rants are for the support guy, not for Facter. Never
have been, but they got mixed up. This community needs a link with AWCI, and
this would fit you. Just don't get yourself in the way. You can still be
what you wanted to be. Give it a thought.

rolu

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