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Mar 2, 2001, 10:31pm

[View Quote] Multiple beacons, if possible. In multiple worlds. Kinda like a phone bot.
Drop one at every world and place you want to talk or keep an eye on. And be
able to set the range of the beacon.

rolu

Mar 3, 2001, 6:19pm

[View Quote] ah... and you don't let them in in person either, I assume?

> And I will be the first to start a group against it if it's made possible
to
> do so without the world owners permission.
> As for dropping beacons to listen in other worlds, well I don't know that
I
> would want to visit the other worlds knowing that some one in another
world
> could hear my conversations, perhaps without my knowing. This is called
> spying. I am against this idea totally.

It's only spying if you use a dumb implementation. The beacon would be
clearly visible for everyone around, with a special av. It will show up in
the whisper list. The only real difference: the person isn't actually there.
It's not like a microphone hidden in a bush somewhere.

If you whisper something, the beacon will not hear it (unless you whisper to
the beacon). You can kick beacons if you can kick people. The beacon will
have the name of it's owner on it. So, what's the difference with the owner
of the beacon actually being at the place of the beacon? Nothing.

> If james w wants to chat while he builds, he can call his friends in to
chat
> with him.

And what if those friends want to build somewhere else at the same time?

> There is no need to listen in on other peoples conversations.

Oh, there is. You need to listen to be able to participate. The beacons
aren't one way - you can send chat back to it.

> As for wisper, it's fine for short comments in private, but it is a real
> pain when trying to carry on an entire conversation.

Could be solved by making a better implementation of whisper.

rolu

Mar 4, 2001, 3:04pm

[View Quote] He was talking about a situation where shift is allowed in the world, yet
you want an object where you can't pass through even when you use shift.
Create solid off would do kinda the opposite of that.

rolu

Mar 4, 2001, 3:04pm

[View Quote] I think both of them are right. Currently, only one rotation is stored in
the cell database. To be able to rotate an object along every axis, you'd
need to store two rotations, which would require the addition of a field,
and thus a rewrite.

The rotate action command doesn't need this rewrite, because it stores all
needed rotations in the action field in the database. However, using this
command to make objects rotate when it could have been done by rewriting the
cell database and adding a second rotation field is just an ugly patch.

rolu

Mar 4, 2001, 3:04pm

[View Quote] And that's where the beacon comes in. It is a representation of someone, so
he doesn't have to be there in person.

in
> there.
>
> I don't really think going to the trouble to make a beacon is necessary
> anyway because there are bots that can already do that.

You can have only a few bot instances - what if you want to use them for
something else already? Also, you'd have to run an external program, as
opposed to the beacons, which are used inside the AW browser.

> A friend of mine
> sometimes sends his bot to my world to talk to me while he works
elsewhere.
> I don't mind that, if I know the bot was sent. What I do mind, is when
some
> one I don't know sends a bot to listen in on what's going on in my world.

The beacon is not meant as a listening device but as a way to participate in
a discussion. Being able to listen is a part of that, but certainly not the
only thing.

> You are right they can be ejected if I know they are there. They will show
> on my wisper list, but I dont' always scan my list to see who is on it, so
I
> will miss a bot comeing in at times.

To drop a beacon, you'd have to come in in person anyway. And if you don't
check who is around, you can easily miss someone who is in your world in
person as well as a beacon. Both can hear what you say. If you don't check
who is around, it's your problem.

> That is when my conversations are being
> spied on.

Yeah, so? What you mentioned can be done as well without the beacon, so I
don't really see a problem there. If you don't want to be heard, go to a
place where nobody is - neither people nor beacons - or use whisper.

> Useing a bot should be enough since every cit num can run up to 3
> bots at a time.

Bots are annoying for that. I want all the chat in one place - in the AW
browser, where it belongs. On IRC you can enter as many channels as you
want, this should be possible in AW too.

> I don't see why or how anyone would handle more
> conversations then that.

oh, that's easy. Yourself at awbingo, one beacon at AW GZ, one beacon at
tech talk, one beacon at AWGate, one beacon in a friends world, etc etc etc.

> So, I don't see a need for a beacon.

Hope you do now.

rolu

Mar 4, 2001, 8:05pm

[View Quote] Still would have to switch between AWbrowser and the bot.

> If they do put a beacon option on the aw browser, I hope they also put a
> world owner option that would disallow the use of it in the world without
> permission.

hmm... prolly.

rolu

Mar 5, 2001, 3:05pm

[View Quote] If there are worlds not showing up, it's broken. And therefore it can be
fixed (by making those worlds show up).

rolu

Mar 5, 2001, 7:38pm

[View Quote] There are worlds running but not showing up in the worlds list. I do
consider that "broken".

> However, I doubt whether any of us KNOW what the situation should be, so
at
> this stage it cannot be defined as broken, just a problem that may be
doing
> what was origionally designed.
>
> So easy to scream broken when in actual fact it could be doing the right
> thing.

Not showing running worlds is definately not the right thing. It should show
all worlds running, or it shouldn't allow them to run. Whether it is a
design flaw or a bug, it is broken.

rolu

Mar 7, 2001, 5:59pm

[View Quote] It doesn't work as it should, so it's broken, seems pretty simple to me :-)

> but world owner feel
> cheated by their worlds not showing on the list. Now its not such a big
deal
> since its empty and closed worlds which are dropped from the list (and you
> can still teleport to them). But sooner or later this won't be enough and
> more and more worlds will go into involuntary "stealth mode". A much more
> interesting discussion would be how to solve this.
>
> Personally I find the world list much too long, I would prefer a list of
my
> own choice (like the Contacts list). A full list of all worlds could then
be
> there in addition, but updated much slower to to lessen the burden on the
> universe server. Maybe this isn't practical either, but giving ideas to
the
> developers may help them in finding workable solution or spark other
ideas.

There seems to be some kind of 8kb limit to the data package sending the
world information. Therefore the uniserver should just send out more than
one packet, and it will get all the worlds to the clients again.

As for how it should show the list - I'd say, keep the current list, but add
another tab where you could organise worlds in a collapsable tree view, so
you can organise them in categories. The contact list should be a
collapsable tree view too.

rolu

Mar 7, 2001, 7:29pm

[View Quote] hmm... including putting it in a tab to the left? Would seem ok to me. You
can certainly put a lot more into such a tree view than in a menu thingy,
even if it would have submenu's.

rolu

> rolu schrieb:
add
so

Mar 19, 2001, 9:47pm

Instead of a message you can configure in the browser: a way to make the
world app spam everybody in the world with some message when a person with
access to it wants to. That way you can send every message you want to
everybody in your world whenever you want.

rolu

[View Quote]

Mar 20, 2001, 2:12pm

[View Quote] That happens when you enter the world. But can a world owner also send such
a message to everybody in the world when he/she wants?

rolu

Mar 22, 2001, 8:30pm

[View Quote] They could do that internally if they wanted - would be quite easy. No
problems for the users.

rolu

Dec 21, 2000, 7:07pm

I'm back!

Rolu

Dec 22, 2000, 11:07am

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since when do people in this group post in threads with points??

Rolu
[View Quote] Never do that again. Only a select few are allowed to moo in my=20
presence, and you ain't one of em.=20
[View Quote] --=20
Goober King=20
Begone, peasant!=20
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2722.2800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>since when do people in this group post =
in threads=20
with points??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rolu</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"nornny" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:Nornny at snet.net">Nornny at snet.net</A>&gt;=20
[View Quote] ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C06C20.323D3800--

Dec 22, 2000, 5:37pm

Well then, I'm a rebel!

MOOO!!!!!!

Rolu

[View Quote]

Dec 23, 2000, 7:04pm

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how can I stay to the point when there is none?

Rolu
[View Quote] since when do people in this group post in threads with points?? =
Rolu=20
[View Quote] Never do that again. Only a select few are allowed to moo in =
my=20
presence, and you ain't one of em.=20
[View Quote] --=20
Goober King=20
Begone, peasant!=20
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu


------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C06CEA.82792B60
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>how can I stay to the point when there =
is=20
none?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rolu</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"the derek" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:ImTheDerek at yahoo.com">ImTheDerek at yahoo.com</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:3A43F0F3.9FFB0465 at yahoo.com">news:3A43F0F3.9FFB0465 at yahoo.co=
m</A>...</DIV>rolu...=20
youre just asking for it now.. just at least TRY to stay to the =
point...=20
[View Quote] ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C06CEA.82792B60--

Dec 23, 2000, 7:04pm

[View Quote] Whether you have paid or not doesn't matter. Or do you say that someone who
has, for example, got a citizenship as a birthday present has no right to
talk here? That seems very odd to me.

Rolu

Dec 23, 2000, 7:04pm

[View Quote] wouldn't be the first time. But they'll prolly make some new ones and
everyone's happy again.

Rolu

Dec 24, 2000, 5:41pm

If you have several servers running, it will help. Multiple CPU's will only
help a single program if it has multiple threads, but nothing prevents you
from running that program more than once.

Rolu

[View Quote]

Dec 25, 2000, 10:56am

[View Quote] either about 32000 or 65000 in each direction... don't remember which one it
was. But you probably know about where your building is, don't you? You
might remember in which quadrant it was or something.

> That really makes it 20,000x20,000.
>
> 20,000
> x20,000
> -----------
> 400000 cells squared. (Cells is the technical term
that
> bot programmers use to measure NSEW)
>
> 400,000 cells each way. A bot scans in sectors. Each sector is a grid of
> 10x10 cells.

so, a sector is 100 cells.

>
> Now, you'll have to forgive my 13-year-old incolence, but even if the
> numbers come out wrong because there really is a trick when you divide as
> you square, you'll still have good enough numbers to prove my point.
>
>
> 400000
> / 10
> --------------
> 40,000

that would be dividing by 100, not 10. Still 4000 sectors. But AW is larger
than that.

>
> Assuming that each sector takes about 3 minutes to scan (because they
really
> do take about that long, especially in used locations) thats 40,000 times
4,
> 120,000 or 2,000 hours or over 900 days or more than 2 years. Sound fun?
> Don't worry, there's more.

90 days, or about 3 months. But if that takes you too long, just run more
bots at once.

>
> The average build has more than 100 objects. That would be equal to about
4
> two-story simple houses. How many of those have you built? Now, they don't
> give you a "Your house is here" "Your city is here" They spurt out in "I
> found a walk001.rwx at 130n 346w" Now, that 100 times, times however many
of
> those houses you built?
> I sure don't want to be the one that tries to find out what that means.

If the bot finds a dozen of those walks at once, it can just give one
warning.

>
> And what about the pains in it? AlphaWorld will eject a bot that comes
close
> enough to GZ, but since it's on a loop from one corner of the world to the
> other, there isn't really much of a way to prevent that (Well, yes there
is,
> but it might get messy) so blah to the programmer.

That's very easy to prevent.

>
> It may just be me, but, instead of waiting two years and then digging
> through a list of over 100,000 objects, I'd rather just use the Vevo AW
Map.
> awmap.vevo.com

If you use the map, you prolly have a general idea of where your stuff is.
You can tell the bot to start at a certain position, and then make circles
around it, wider and wider, until it finds something. By the way, if the
search takes an x amount of time, and the chance of finding your building is
about equal, you'll find it in on average x/2 time. And you might be lucky
and find it at the beginning.

>
> Any doubts on Ima Genius' claim? I sure have a few.

I'm pretty sure it's possible, but a program searching through the AW world
database would be much faster. But that involves the AW management, and
they'll prolly not let you there.

>
> Sincerly,
> Twisted Horizon.
> Merry Christmas!
>
>

Dec 27, 2000, 1:04pm

[View Quote] Given a normal integer (2^16) which can have 65536 values, one is needed for
GZ, which leaves 65535 values. Divided by 2 there's 32767.5 left for either
side. That leaves two possibilities: either all sides stretch to 32767, or
two go to 32767 and the other two go to 32768. So that's where the end
should be.

Rolu

> _________________________
> John Viper
> http://www.jtsoft.net
>
> "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve..."
>
[View Quote]

Dec 28, 2000, 10:23am

[View Quote] Could you build over that edge?

Either they intentionally left a small safety margin there, or someone got
their integer math wrong.

Rolu

>
> Holistic1
>
>
[View Quote]

Dec 29, 2000, 11:18am

[View Quote] I was talking about the main AW world. They have no (commercial) reason to
limit building activity there, so you should be able to build at the edge of
the wall.

Rolu

>
> --
> - Tony56 (chandler56 at mail.com)
> "Freedom: That's What The Government Wants You To Believe!"
> ____________________________________________________________
[View Quote]

Dec 29, 2000, 6:47pm

[View Quote] Of course it has. The fields used to store the coords of an object have a
limited size. I never argued against that - and if you think so you should
reread my posts.

Rolu

Dec 31, 2000, 8:31am

[View Quote] simple solution: don't install things. You don't use a server you host other
people's stuff on for day to day things like games, do you?

Also, he said "no hours down". Surely you can reboot in under an hour, cant
you? :-)

Rolu

Dec 29, 2000, 11:18am

[View Quote] And you still paid for the onboard stuff you don't use now, or did they give
you the geforce card for free?

Rolu

Dec 29, 2000, 6:44pm

[View Quote] I've seen games where you could level a mountain just by shooting at it.
I've seen games where you could build structures while playing, whole army
bases, and shoot them to pieces. You can even play them multiplayer. And
they all ran faster than AW. Now tell me how the "worlds" of those games are
more fixed than those in AW?

Dec 30, 2000, 9:23pm

if the database needs a rebuild every time something goes wrong, they use a
crappy database, and it's time to move on to something else. Especially if
it takes 10 hours every time something goes wrong. And if their server keeps
doing weird things they should kick Sun. Hard.

Rolu

[View Quote]

Dec 31, 2000, 8:28am

[View Quote] I know that. But there are databases that can't go corrupted when you flip
the switch. And there are filesystems that can't go corrupted when you flip
the switch. You'll loose the transactions that were done at the moment the
system went down, but as soon as it is up you can start using it again. If
they shell out $40k for a server, maybe they should look into that kind of
technology too. If the server AW is on goes down in an uncontrolled way now,
it will take at least 10 hours before it is up again.

Rolu

>
> -Agent1
>
>
[View Quote]

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