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Oct 1, 2001, 7:10pm

Like you?

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 2, 2001, 7:55pm

Ever have a really good idea for a bot and not be able to implement it because you weren't a programmer? Need something done in your world but don't know how? Send me an email describing your idea, and I'll see what we can work out. I will charge for the bots, but the price will be determined on a case-by-case basis depending on complexity.


-Agent1

Oct 3, 2001, 9:49pm

Seeing Annanas in the newsgroups, I doubt he did anything so bad as you depict it. Maybe he did delete your build, but that is not an issue for the newsgroups.

Let me be the first to say the following:
Can it -- Keep your private "problems" out of the newsgroups.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 5, 2001, 11:26am

What makes you think we can do anything about it? Flagg is really the only AWC member that would read these newsgroups and respond to something like this eventually... If you want something done, talk to those who can take care of it.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 10, 2001, 11:28am

Making AW "go poorer" will only make it harder for them to make the changes that so many people want. How can they do *anything* without funds?

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 11, 2001, 6:03pm

Replies inline --

[View Quote] Apparently, it was sent at the end of the day on a Friday. What do you expect?

> Now, cut the crap on the privilege I had of you responding to my telegrams. You
> are an employee of AWcom and from the corporate office you telegramed back and
> forth to me regarding the error and the details of it. It was you who failed to
> pass that information on to Noelle and expected me to repeat all the
> information.

Flagg is not in charge of billing. From what posted, he told you who you needed to talk to in order to resolve your problem.

> I had informed you I was ending my 12 work shift. I hardly need to
> waste time repeating myself.

Yet you expect Flagg to "waste time" by doing everything for you. He told you what you needed to do.

> I notified you who are in the position of customer
> care. I DID my part! That is YOUR Failure as an AWcom Representative.

So *any* AWC employee has to immediatly drop what they're doing if they get a telegram in AW? That's not how it works. They have set up official support and billing email accounts SPECIFICALLY for problems such as yours.

> Is it that hard to see that you contribute to AW's negligence when you begin to decide what
> is privilege response from you and what is normal customer service?

As Flagg said, they don't *have* to respond to any telegrams in AW regarding service. No where are you told that telegram support is part of your citizenship.

> The result that I see is that on 9-28-01 two customers I know had their credit information
> poorly handled by AWcom. The following week more customers had been hurt by the
> same site.

Hmm... from what I've heard, people submitted orders using a credit card that couldn't handle a $200 overdraw on an Internet site. Perhaps they should be more careful the next time they use their credit card.

> All during that time you were using your opinion to ignore my original notices as well as my courtesy follow up that Thursday. I contacted you
> as well as support several times during that week. Now those failed responses
> results in customers being overdrawn now...

No. A bug in the order software and the customer repeatedly re-sending their order caused the problem.


>That represents AWcom's Answer? That hurts the customer. That is the reason this problem went on for over ten
> days. I also know of a customer who HAS phoned you and who HAS NOT been reimbursed by you.

So everyone who phones and has a problem automatically gets reimbursed? What are you talking about?

> I am not here to harm AWcom.

*cough*

> I am only trying to see that attitudes such as your remarks concerning telegram contact only help to break down the company and it's
> customer care or lack there of. There is never an excuse to ignore a serious problem, ever! Money problems on the site is a serious problem!

You were never guaranteed telegram support. Ever.

> I operate a successful business of providing internet service which includes a
> large 3D division within AW. You are very aware that we host many worlds for
> many customers from around the globe. Daily I hear from world owners as well as
> new customers inquiring about worlds. I hear their cries all too often. So when
> I take the time out of my day... time that normally goes to filling the gaps of
> AW's support... much of which I hear goes un-answered... I expect that AW would
> be interested in hearing the facts from outside their own little shell. But you
> have shown me in your own words. In your opinion it was handled satisfactory!
> In my opinion and the opinion of the many it affected... the losses caused by
> your ways are very UN-satisfactory...
>
> And your opinion that a Company should be as unconscious of customer safety as
> to recommend and endorse the sending of Credit Card data over unsecured
> sources.... well that is showing a huge amount of ignorance and neglect on the
> part of AWcom with you as their representative. I would think your merchant
> account would be closed if they heard your recommendation! They require that
> security measures be taken for credit approvals without the presence of customer
> or card! Based on your statements... the whole Net should do away with SSL and
> give up all the secure servers and browser encryption's. Flagg says it's SAFE to
> send your Credit Card via open e-mail... Hey MicroSoft, Hey Netscape... You
> wasted Millions $$$$ on secure sockets and encryption!!!! Flagg knows more than
> all the experts and releases to press that e-mail is good enough!!!!

As Flagg said: Send it over the phone if email bothers you.

> This all could have been much easier had AWcom acknowledged their e-mails and
> the fact there was a problem at the beginning. Many people would have been saved
> the troubles that your disregards caused. It appears rather than apologize for
> the error in judgments you choose to flame and make me look bad...

Uhhh... Flagg's post was professional. There was no flaming. *You* are the one doing the flaming.

> All I did was take it to the public eye to insure change would come about... I am glad to see
> from your post that certain issues are now being dealt with... I hope this
> brings on some oversight in the future so others can be safer doing business
> with AWcom. A customer based company's most valuable resource is the
> customers... try not to forget that... I am not the bad guy... just the one
> willing to step out and speak for the little people who get hurt...
>
>
[View Quote]

Oct 11, 2001, 7:49pm

Quit your whining already. You said you brought this to the newsgroup to get the public to do something about it or some gibberish. If anyone would have reacted that way, they would have by now. Take your problem to email with AW and work it out with them. We don't need to hear any more about this.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 13, 2001, 7:50pm

It is not censorship. This news server is private property and the owners have the right to do with it as they please.

Now, stop harrassing us with this useless "information".

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 16, 2001, 6:59pm

Community isn't moderated anymore.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 16, 2001, 9:06pm

Since ALL messages stopped going through a person before being posted here, the community group isn't moderated.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 24, 2001, 7:21pm

Didn't Roland say he made the encryption sort of machine-specific to help prevent that sort of thing? Plus, if you're that paranoid, don't save your password.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Nov 26, 2001, 10:32pm

I think this was already discussed in fairly good detail. Don't want to send your credit card info through email? Then don't. To think you would attempt to re-start an argument like that one is even more stupid on your behalf.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Dec 2, 2001, 8:31pm

I was going to post something similar to Moff's post, but he said it pretty well...

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Dec 5, 2001, 12:40pm

Uhh... no... You can enter any public world as a tourist, so you're not paying for the right to anything.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Dec 12, 2001, 10:15pm

If you *have* to post this in an AWC newsgroup, put it in general.discussion. This doesn't apply to the whole community.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Dec 13, 2001, 12:38pm

Disagreeing with you doesn't make someone unintelligent. AWTeen maybe be a *part* of the AW community, but so are a lot of other people who don't air their dirty laundry here.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Dec 18, 2001, 12:47pm

I'd be interested in maybe building in a world like that... If you start implementing this idea, let me know. I'd be interested in helping out here and there :)

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Dec 21, 2001, 11:15pm

Google keeps a massive cache of Usenet posts... That is a link to their posts with the author "Eep".

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Dec 22, 2001, 2:43pm

There's a sign at the normal Tech Talk spot that says "Tech Talk has been cancelled until further notice - Roland" and is built by citizen 1.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Dec 29, 2001, 11:10pm

[View Quote] American laws *cannot* be applied to people outside of the United States (regardless of recent events involving a Russian programmer... ::rolleyes::). Since AW does operate in the US, they may have to obey American laws, but, being in Canada, I don't.

-Agent1

Dec 29, 2001, 11:20pm

I'll reply to both, then.

[View Quote] Copyright has nothing to do with this. The only thing close would be contract law, since everyone agreed to the content/conduct guidlines and the EULA when they installed AW.

> sorry that didn't make sense..
> AW's company and products have to follow American laws. If you use this product.. anything you do with it must abide by those same laws..

Not really. If I do something in AW that's illegal in America but not in Canada and doesn't violate the things I agreed to when installing AW, who is going to prosecute me?


-Agent1

Dec 29, 2001, 11:50pm

[View Quote] American laws apply to everyone and everything *in* America. Period.


>That's why if you copyright things, it's illegal to make a copy all over the world, because it has to follow International laws. *copying is only a small thing which >copyrights cover* But since this is copyright in America and Internationally.. you also have to follow America's laws while using this product. So if you break an >American law while using this.. you're running a risk of prosecution. Same goes with other products such as ISP's.

I think you're grossly misinformed about what a copyright is and does. According to http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html, copyright holders in the United States (and I would assume internationally because of that treaty... don't remember the name) have the following rights:
1. To reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords;
2. To prepare derivative works based upon the work;
3. To distribute copies or phonorecords of the work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
4. To perform the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
5. To display the copyrighted work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work;
6. In the case of sound recordings, to perform the work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission

A copyright is granted on " 'original works of authorship' that are fixed in a tangible form of expression".

Copyright covers only essentially copying and distribution. Copyright doesn't make it illegal for me to break American laws.


> The person whom was offended has every right to prosecute you if they're in America..

They can try to sue, I suppose... But how will they force me to appear in court?

> Just because a company puts things in it's EULA doesn't mean it's legal.. I've come across it before, but AW doesn't violate American laws.

Yes, it does. Anything reasonable in an EULA is legally binding. EULAs are just as good as a paper contract now. I have heard of portions being struck down because they were a little bit "much", but otherwise everything in it is "legal".


-Agent1

Dec 30, 2001, 12:34pm

[View Quote] May I see yours?

> EULA's can only be legal if they're under accordance to the laws of the
> company to which the product that you're using is copyrighted.

Copyright is totally separate to contract law.

> If you agree to the EULA of a company in America.. you've just agreed to follow those
> rules and America's laws in accordance to that product..

No. All I've agreed to follow is the terms set out in the EULA.

> anything illegal you do with that product that's illegal in the country of the company, is punishable.

Maybe if I was in America, yes. Another country can't just impose its laws on citizens of other countries.

> That may not be the case with Canada's laws but it's true here. Since you're not from America, you can't specualte which laws you will
> follow while using this product.

American laws never apply to me unless I've signed some sort of contract saying I won't violate them, or unless I visit America.

> You can be dragged from your country as easily as you can be hunted down by the FBI or CIA for that matter. Just because you're in Canada doesn't mean
> you can break the laws of America while using American products or services.

If the 'crime' was that bad, I'm sure it'd be illegal in Canada too.

> It's legal if you're writing it in accordance with American law *since it still is an american product* You can't just write something that violates
> laws such as "I give you the legal right to hold stolen funds in this account, we can't be held responsable neither can you."

Obviously. But EULAs can say things like "You do not own this software, you simply license it from us", etc.

> That's just an example.. I can't emphasize this enough. If it violates the laws of the country to which the company belongs, it's illegal.

Yes, in that country. But if I were to do something illegal (somehow through AW) that was only illegal in America, I doubt I'd be in much trouble.

> This entire debate is about American law, nothing else since AW is not a foreign company.

No. It involves American law, but we're also trying to work out how international politics would affect the whole thing. True, only American laws apply to AWC, but only Canadian laws apply to me.

> I don't care if you're from Timbukto.. if you do not act in accordance to American law, you can be prosecuted to the full degree that the law allows.

I'd like to see them try :)

> A EULA does not have the power to surpass laws.

Who said it did?

> This topic has strayed to far away from the original topic.. :), if you don't mind I'd like to stop it now.. it's too long LoL.

Not when I still find problems with what you've said :)

-Agent1

Dec 29, 2001, 11:16pm

I think it would be a good idea for AWC to keep a copy of their EULA on the web (somewhere at http://activeworlds.com). That way, people could examine it again later if they wanted.


-Agent1

Dec 30, 2001, 3:57pm

Remember when you installed AW there was a "license agreement" or something? That's what I'm talking about.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Jan 3, 2002, 12:01pm

Let's say that enough people stayed with AW to save it from extinction. What would the money be put towards? Would it be only enough to sustain the current level of content and features, or would it let AWC make more frequent updates? If it will only let them keep running at their current "speed", then I don't know that I want to renew my citizenship once it's $9.50/month. I pay USD$10/month for an MMORPG that updates content and storyline once a month. They make changes (even if small) to the client, as well. They have a server farm that is load balanced to carry all of the players they have to host data for. All of the bandwidth is also paid for with that fee.

I do like Activeworlds a lot, but if the increase in price isn't reflected in an increase in quality of the product, then I don't think I'll be paying. It's too much for me to be able to shrug it off and say, "Hey! It'll save AW, and I get some cool upgrades!". I have no idea what is planned for the browser past 3.3. I also have no idea what will happen in May when I have to decide whether or not to renew.



-Agent1

Jan 12, 2002, 8:56pm

So you're willing to pay six times as much for the same citizenship just so
AW can buy some unheard-of company?

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Jan 14, 2002, 12:38pm

[View Quote] Actually, it would cause some fragmentation, wouldn't it? Leaving a big hole
somewhere on the drive... :)

> - eliminate all virii and their complete developement platform

I've heard of trojans for Linux. While I agree they're not as effective or
numerous as on Windows (and they're not really a virus...), they *are* there
:)

-Agent1

Jan 29, 2002, 6:34pm

*mumbles something about less-technical users* :)

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Feb 18, 2002, 4:49pm

[View Quote] Could you give a general description of how you "protect" artwork, please?


-Agent1

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