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Nov 21, 1998, 6:42am

[View Quote] Cubic you are genius and I'll bet you did not even know it.

You said the magic words.

Intel is always looking for the Next Big Thing that will suck up scads of
CPU cycles and be so compelling that everyone will want to chuck there old
sluggish P-2 Xeon 450 and buy the latest fastest computer.

Alpha World is IT baby! Yeow! CoF needs cash, resources, programmers,
funding, more cash, and even some financial muscle wouldn't hurt. Intel
has more cash than they know how to spend. Damn, the Microsoft anti-trust
trial has uncovered some interesting tidbits of info about the way Intel
spends money on technology demonstration projects: if I remember correctly
they threw several hundred programmers at one project (Microsoft objected
and forced them to quit).

Roland, ya just gotta tell the boss. Call these dudes at Intel. I'd bet
they'd buy CoF and move at least some of you out to Silicon Valley. Hey,
the weather is nice and you'll get used to the earthquakes, I promise.
Really.

ScottyDM

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Nov 25, 1998, 12:02am

Yo, Roland...

No comments? No answers? Flames? Anybody?

Roland, like you would not like to be the lead programmer for a big Intel
funded project? Come on, I am serious. I'll bet Intel really would like to
fund CoF because if AW becomes popular, it'll sell a lot more fast chips.
You guys could even slip some code in that won't run on K-6 and what not.

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Nov 25, 1998, 9:09am

[View Quote] "It's not my job." That is what you are saying? I don't know anyone in
CoF. You are the least "hazy" to me as a personality except for MM and I'm
not really sure what she does. So, you could carry the idea to them
perhaps? CoF is a small company, right? You deal with management almost
every day, correct?

If you truly feel that talking to management about an idea that was
presented on a newsgroup is not your job, then perhaps the corporate
culture typically found in Silicon Valley is not for you. CoF has a big
technology lead on any competition that may exist, but you guys are not
moving very fast. If something is not done and soon, the user base of
Alpha World and your server business will gradually go extinct, replaced
by any one of several competitors who are better funded and faster moving.

Not what I want to see happen.

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 7:59pm

[View Quote] How about making the screen flash red, like when you get shot in Doom!

On second hand COF, you fix the rendering and clipping problems. We'll
all do our part and throw out those old computers and get 400MHz P-2s
(dual processor... when will you add multithreading?).

Here is a REAL suggestion: Make it so that when we hit a smooth surface
at some kind of reasonable angle, we can slide along it instead of being
stuck. Sheeesss. Speaking of Doom, if you strike the wall at an
angle, you CAN slide along it (not very fast though).

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Jun 30, 1998, 7:28pm

So, we cannot bump into and then slide along a wall. Nor can we build a
slide or ski slope without using bump-warps.

I have an idea:

an atribute like friction. As in "create friction .25" (1/4 of normal).
This command could be used for climbing steep slopes (setting friction
higher than 1.0) or sliding down slopes (setting it lower than 1.0). An
ice rink could be created by setting friction very low (ie .05) so that
"a body in motion would tend to remain in motion, etc." (try turing 90
deg to your motion and then run to change direction). To make a roller
coaster use bump-warps to take someone to the top, then set the friction
very low for the rest of the track. This would also necessatate modeling
momentum as well. Normal friction (ie. 1.0) would allow some one to
*walk* up or down a 45 deg slope, but not a 46 deg slope (about the same
a hiking boots on clean stone).

The biggest problem that I can see is than COF can only implement what
is available in Renderware. And COF does not have the programming
resources to create their own rendering engine to replace Renderware.

Scott

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Jun 30, 1998, 7:36pm

[View Quote] YES YES
Eep² is right. There is NO REASON IN THE WORLD why the world list needs
to move (scroll) on its own. The portion of the list which is in view
should only change position when the user moves it. The data within the
window can update all day without affecting this feature.

Scott

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May 18, 1998, 8:07pm

[View Quote] Did you want to create a spagetti farm?

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 8:07pm

[View Quote] Did you want to create a spaghetti farm?

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 8:10pm

[View Quote] Both good ideas...

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 8:13pm

[View Quote] How about something that is triggered... like a guard dog. Or something
which interacts with the user rather than just wander around.

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 8:14pm

[View Quote] yes there is something I'd like to see...

A COMPLETE list of items to build with in AW. The existing list is
pathetic.

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 8:19pm

[View Quote] EXCUZZZE ME...

We already have those. They are the arrow keys. Take off your "numlock"
and use the arrows to move, Pg Up and Pg Dn to rotate, Ins and Del to
copy and delete, + and - to raise and lower, and of course shift to make
it small incremental movements. Don't make stuff any more complicated
than it already is.

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Jun 30, 1998, 7:56pm

[View Quote] TZ,

I would prefer to change into a tourist manually. If I am building I
don't want to be auto-changed if there is an otherwise unseen tourist
object where I'm placing an object.

There are a few times in the past when I've changed into a tourist to
build something. Mostly involving close building projects, where I will
check to see that what I've built (a stream with sloped banks and sand
blending into grass) can be added onto by another builder. I use tourist
so the other builder can examine my approach (if they want to) then
delete it and duplicate it using their own building #.

By the way, WHY is it illegal to give my property away? I would solve
some of those tricky building problems. Particularly when co-building
with an less experienced, unsure newbe. My experience has been that
sometimes they just give up on the tricky parts. (Not the same as
building privs, I don't want to modify ALL their properties (even if
that is a god-awful animation they are using for some object) just build
some tricky thing like a waterfall flowing over/through a pile of
rocks).

Scott

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Jun 30, 1998, 7:57pm

[View Quote] This would be very cool....

Scott

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Jun 30, 1998, 8:07pm

[View Quote] Why would it look out of place? I once saw a mountain lion at dusk
slinking along side a wooden fence near some houses in a Colorado
Springs neighborhood. I also saw a buck with a really nice rack waiting
for traffic to clear before crossing 6 lane S Nevada Ave. to go to the
shopping mall. (Also in Colorado Springs, was he going to get some
antler polish at Sears?)

The challenge is to create a bot which can interact with other objects
so you do not get the trapped bot effect, or bots which can pass through
objects. The easiest would be to let the citizen/builder place the bot,
then object collision would be the responsibility of the builder. But I
got the impression that some bots would be scattered around by COF to
lend interest to the landscape.

ScottyDM

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Jun 30, 1998, 8:17pm

[View Quote] "move" is ok, but it implies a destination. How about "push"?

ScottyDM

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Jun 30, 1998, 8:20pm

Can Renderware support true 3D? Or is it just an AW limitation?

ScottyDM

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Jun 30, 1998, 8:56pm

[View Quote] Hey, that might get people to actually move, rather than stand there
like some Indian goddess and look gross.

ScottyDM

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May 18, 1998, 6:29pm

Seems like an interesting idea Robert, it should work just fine. That
tourists have limits is ok (i.e. the hassle of "registering" on every
world that allows tourist building).

On the other hand (as a citizen) I have been to worlds and built a few
trial objects just to see what was available -- always deleted my stuff
before moving on (after taking notes).


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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 6:31pm

I second the motion.

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 6:37pm

The 8 character limit is pretty severe, but some folks are stuck with a
small screen and so the limit is practical.

How about the idea of a 50 to 100 character description that would be
invisible until the cursor was passed over the world's name? It would
appear as a kind of floating text box.

While we are on the subject of the worlds list; how about NOT auto
scrolling the list every time someone enters or leaves a world? Do we
really need to be treated with a view of the activity on the "A" worlds?

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

May 18, 1998, 7:33pm

I think to be truly useful the search engine should search all fields --
including "builder", so putting a secret word where the search engine
looks would not work if the search engine looks everywhere including
fixed fields like "builder" or "citizen #".

Of course for privacy we could all purchase several user names. One for
public building, one for private building, and possibly one for when we
just gotta go on that enemy creating tirade at GZ (lest the many enemies
we create search out our property and vandalize it).

Now this ought to get COF's attention -- multiple user names per person
(at $20 a pop).

ScottyDM


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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 2:29pm

[View Quote] The present model of the AW server REQUIRES a registry in public build
worlds. In the registry is information about the "footprint" of each
object. This is how the building inspector knows that you've tried to
place an object that overlaps on another person's property.

HOWEVER there may be a simple solution. Keep the registry but allow
building with non-registered objects ONLY if they meet two criteria: #1
the non-registered object must have a footprint that does not exceed 10m
x 10m. #2 the center point of a non-registered object may not be placed
any closer that 7.1m to another person's property (or in the case where
the edge of someone else's property is non-registered objects, 14.2m to
the center of their closest non-registered object). These two checks
would become a new feature of the building inspector.

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 2:31pm

[View Quote] We do Paul, it's called the AW basic library. People complain about it
ALL the time (not "rich" enough). :^)

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 3:54pm

[View Quote] Eep²; do you really want to turn on encroaching in AW-prime???? My
suggestion is to be able to use non-registered objects in a public world
where the registry is in use.

People bitch-n-moan because of the limited list of models in various
worlds that they have to work with (AW prime in particular). Adding the
ability to pull objects in off the web (a URL-object), is not enough for
a public building world. I cannot think of a clean way to automatically
register these objects. Plus think of what would happen to AW-prime's
registry if hundreds of people started using unique objects pulled in
from their web pages and auto-registered! So if the URL-object were
added as a feature, only worlds where private building was happening
would be able to use it (and they don't really need it). The suggestion
was for a possible work around so that URL-objects could co-exist with
registered objects on a public building world.

BTW, this does nothing to solve the problem of the badly designed, buggy
object. AW-prime is a pleasure to stroll around in because there are no
"garbage" objects that poison the browser. That is, the rendering engine
gets confused about which object is in front and which is behind and
displays jaggy edges on objects. I suppose a fix for this would have to
take place in the browser itself. Perhaps a filter that rejects
"garbage" objects. This would leave some worlds with LOTS of little
black triangles, but then the world owners deserve it if they have
garbage in their object directory. Better yet, the filter could display
rejected objects as little RED triangles. Ok, visualize this: You're
building on AW-prime. you select an object, copy it, slide it over, then
replace the name in the object box with a URL pointing to your brand new
"gizmo5.rwx". You close the build box. The old object changes to a black
triangle and you see your new gizmo5 in the download box. The triangle
changes from black to red! "Dang, must have a bug. Gotta redo that one."

Another problem is protecting your URL-object from being copied by
anyone, both throughout the world and on other worlds as well. Perhaps
zip encryption based on the builder number. Wrong builder number and the
zip file does not get decrypted properly (it would have the effect of
creating our own private "z" objects). Zip encryption based on the
world's name (or some other world ID) could allow a URL-object to be
used by anyone on that world, but nowhere else. Of course zip encryption
is optional. This could be handled on the server side (another job for
the building inspector) or on the browser side (more little red
triangles).

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 8:12pm

[View Quote] AW-prime DOES have a registry, as do a lot of public building worlds.
BTW Butthead, is it necessary for you to open a conversation with an
insult?

>
> Simple: a text file inside the object's ZIP with the registry info.
>

I don't think so. What is to prevent someone from lying about the
registry info. An object that has a registered footprint of 0 x 0 could
be carefully placed between someone else's objects. Example,
walk001h.rwx is not registered as being 10m x 10m but 9.990m x 9.990m so
that walks from different owners can be right up against each other
without encroaching or leaving a gap. Any object registered as 0 x 0
could be used to vandalize another's property.

Other considerations: #1 Does COF really want 50,000+ objects in their
registry for AW-prime? #2 The registry would now need full URLs not just
object names. #3 How do you purge the registry for a popular world like
AW-prime, when the personal web pages that are serving the models get
shut down. It is my understanding that the registries of most worlds get
built by hand, want to maintain it by hand too (under these
circumstances)? It would be bad enough having little black triangles
littering abandoned areas without having the registry AFU as well.

>
> Um, perhaps you're referring to the 16-bit z-buffering which causes overlapping
> polygons to fragment and bleed through other polygons. This isn't necessarily
> because of "badly designed, buggy" objects. See
> http://tnlc.com/rw/terminology.html#z-buffering for more info. And you don't need
> to explain it to ME. I have a RW site, after all...
>

It has nothing to do with z-buffering. Example, where a wall and a floor
come together, if there is a problem with one of the models then
RenderWare cannot seem to figure out where one model ends and the other
begins. If you face the wall straight on, there is no problem. If you
turn slightly then the intersection between them becomes a zig-zag about
1/2m wide (not a pixel problem). Once the browser is "poisoned" it
screws up on worlds with normally clean models. The only way to fix it
is to shut down are restart the AW browser and avoid those worlds with
bad models.

Most of the problem seemed to be associated with models on America and
America affiliated worlds. Jetta has been cleaning up the problem
though. It is much less prevalent now than it was, I had to really hunt
to find this example. Try:
america 183.8N 79.9E 0.0a 70
Walk all around the gray structure built by dudes. The problem is really
bad between the arch01l and the walk029h (even though these are standard
objects). Now look at the structure built by Moff Piett. Not as obvious
on Moff's structure, walk around it. I'm not sure what causes the
problem, perhaps the tree9 is doing it. Try this experiment: set your
visibility high then walk North along the road between the roller
coaster and the reddish building. Turn and look around. If it does not
do it the first time walk back to dudes' and walk back North again. I
had to go back once to get the problem to persist and I also changed my
visibility setting. I had to take the teleports (dudes' or Moff's) back
to AW-prime a couple of times before I got it to follow me back to AW.
Is this a weird looking problem or what? Want to see another weird
artifact? Keep walking North to about 210N. I was with WildCat when he
built the bridge. He could only use American objects to build it (and
only in that spot). He originally had the lot on either side of American
Builder's road and built the bridge to connect them.

I don't expect your models are the problem, and I am not questioning
your talents as a model creator in the slightest.

--snip--
>
> Um, stop thinking so much...you're only complicating things and confusing yourself
> more. To be honest, I didn't ask for a novel about this either.
>
--snip--
>
> Too much thinking again, but, yes, of course ZIP encryption would be necessary.
>

Too bad Eep², I get paid to think, it has become a habit, I cannot help
myself -- and I rarely get confused. I was not confused when I wrote the
previous message, and I'm not confused now. Perhaps you prefer
incomplete or vague ideas?

BTW has anyone ever mentioned to you that your are intelligent,
talented, and have the social skills of a power tool?

ScottyDM

PS: I've bookmarked your pages on rwx object design months ago.

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 6, 1998, 12:05am

[View Quote] So then, I guess we should just blow it off because NONE of these wishes
will EVER come true. I don't buy that one either Eep². I is quite one
thing to say, "I want......" without ever offering a clue as to how that
wish may be accomplished. Constructive ideas may be implemented if they
are reasonable (maybe).

The original post asked if there was a way to import objects from other
object paths. We can already import pictures and sounds, so this seems
like a reasonable request (although textures too would be nice, and
should be WAY simpler than rwx).

I see three problems to be solved in using rwx objects from locations
other than the world's object directory. I am assuming a PUBLIC building
world not a private one.
#1 Preventing encroachment between builders.
#2 Doing something intelligent with bad rwx objects (crashing the
browser is not acceptable).
#3 Protecting those artists who wish to show off their work with out
having it duplicated all over the net.

If we can offer workable solutions to these problems, PERHAPS COF will
include the feature at some future time. How about it people, can we
restart this discussion?

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 6, 1998, 12:13am

[View Quote] Ok, I concede the point Eep², it IS a z-buffering problem. BUT it is a
problem that is orders of magnitude greater that the typical z-buffering
limitation due to having only a 16 bit value for each pixel (or where
ever the typical z-buffering problem comes from). I'm talking about a
palm tree 5m away from a building (20 to 30m from the viewer) and having
the strips of the building's wall overlap the palm tree's trunk as the
viewer walks past. This in not the NORMAL z-buffering artifact (almost
as if the z-buffer value is only 4 bits and not 16), this is why I
consider it to be a problem or a bug and not simply an artifact.

It would still suck, but be acceptable, if the problem only occurred on
the objects that were some how causing the problem -- but once the
browser has been "poisoned" (by what ever is causing it), then all
objects in all worlds are affected until the browser is restarted. This
makes building almost impossible because you cannot see where things
really are.

It is possible that not everyone is affected. I am running the Active
Worlds browser on an older NT machine (workstation 4.0, SP-3) with a S3
based 2D accelerated video card. Eep², did you go look where I
suggested? Can you see what I see?

I have found another world that has the problem really bad. I had an
experience that seems to suggest that it may be caused by the texture
map and not the underlying rwx object. The world has tons of unique and
beautiful objects by a really talented individual, but I guess one
slipped by him some how...

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/////\\ Digitally Enhanced Portrait of:
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| % | Silicon Mercenary
\===/ Freelance Chip Designer

always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 2:25am

The way I understand the limitations is that it is far more fundamental
that just cracks, etc.

There is of course the limitation of the browser's build interface; but
the browser could be easily enough upgraded to allow horizontal
rotations.

The server is also limited. The limitations of the server go far beyond
just being able to add two more rotation coefficients: They go to the
object registry and how building inspector can tell if you are
encroaching on another's property. For each object in the registry there
is an object name and some numbers two of the numbers length and width
of the object along the ground. The server uses these numbers to
calculate encroachment between users properties.

Why this registry model WILL NOT WORK with total 3D rotation: Lets
assume you are placing a 8m high column. This object will have a base of
3m x 3m in the registry, but if you rotate it to horizontal it will now
have a base of 3m x 8m. In between rotations will give other values. I
think (from what I've read) that COF does not want to go to a server
model that will require lots of processing power.

Bummer, huh?

ScottyDM

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Please send all SPAMS, FLAMES, and CONSPIRACY THEORIES to
scottydm at cwia.com
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/////\\ Digitally Enhanced Portrait of:
{|-0-0-|} Scott D. Miller,
| % | Silicon Mercenary
\===/ Freelance Chip Designer

always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 5:44pm

Well, I HAVE used tourist in the past to check out building a complex
group of objects on the border of my property. So that I can see if the
two different properties can flow into each other and blend together.

But then there is becoming a tourist so I can hide my identity and cause
problems...

ScottyDM

--
Please send all SPAMS, FLAMES, and CONSPIRACY THEORIES to
scottydm at cwia.com
Send all other IMPORTANT CORRESPONDENCE to scottydm at codenet.net
___
/////\\ Digitally Enhanced Portrait of:
{|-0-0-|} Scott D. Miller,
| % | Silicon Mercenary
\===/ Freelance Chip Designer

always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

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